Email Questions Answered about Primitive Skills and Plants (2024)

Hello Mr. Labiste. My name is Glenn and I am interested in all aspects of how man used to live with the earth. I am semi-skilled in stone knapping, fire making with bow and hand drills, bow and arrow construction and edible plants, but have struggled with cordage, particularly with splicing. I have seen your dogbane video and appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Is there anyone you know of in Suffolk, Va. that may be willing to get me through that part? Thanks.

Hello Glenn;
I don't know of anyone in your area who can help you learn how to splice cordage. Hopefully, my text explanation below might be of some help.

When you are running out of fibers on one side of your ply, lay your splice of new fibers along side the short bunch of fibers. I usually stick an inch of the end of the new fibers in between the upside down V-shaped portion of your 2-ply cordage. This is the area that is your last twisted cordage and the same area where your two bunch of unplyed fibers are separate. Continue twisting the short bunch of fibers and the new fibers together. Also, continue twisting the other half of your bunch of fibers. Bring the the 2 twisted fibers together and continue plying. When splicing, your cordage should not have a lump in the area you have just spliced. This happens when you add too much of the new fibers. Try to have an equal amount of fibers in both of the untwisted fibers. Thinning out the short bunch of fibers will help to accommodate the addition of the new fibers.

If you are still having difficulty splicing, look at Norm Kidder's article on cordage on the PrimitiveWays website. Access the webpage below.

http://www.primitiveways.com/cordage.html

Also, check out other YouTube videos on cordage making. Weed out the videos that have lousy information. There might be some instructions on how to splice in new fibers in some of the "how to" videos.

Regards,
Dino Labiste

Hello,
My name is Phillip Douget and I work for Louisiana State Parks.I'man interprative wage worker at a state historic site. I was inquiringon how I could build a fish trap.We have plenty of twineand river cane on hand but thats about it.

Well, any advice would greatly be appericated.
Phillip Douget

Phillip, first, if you can get aholdof a copy of the Bulletin of Primitive Technology #25, from thespring of 2003. There are a couple of illustrations of fishtraps in that issue, which is themed around fishing.

If you are using rivercane and twine, you will have an easiertime if you can split the rivercane down the long way. Usethe split pieces (1/4 inch diameter) for the main ribs, then furthersplit some cane down to 1/8th inch by 1/4 inch. Use theseto make circles of graduated sizes (the large opening should beat least 18 inches in diameter) and lash the long cane to thecircles, using clove hitches until you have a long cone. (4 to6 or more feet).Make sure that no opening in the trap isbig enough for the fish to escape. Using shorter pieces(18 to 24 inches), make an inner cone, with the large diameterequal to the long cones bigger end, and tapering down to the sizeof the fish you hope to catch. Tie this cone inside thelong cone. Place the trap into the current, preferably whenfish are migrating upstream. (The diameter of the trap openingshould ideally be equal to the depth of the stream where it willbe placed.) To increase yield, block off the rest of thestream with sticks pounded into the stream bed, or whatever elseworks.

I don't have rivercane to work with, so I'm projecting a bit,I'd use willow out here in California. I have a split bamboofish trap in my collection that I'm basing this on.

Norm Kidder

After watching your dogbane fiber demo, I wonder, is it possible to made cordage from corn husks (or maybe the stalks?) and how do you extract the fibers? I recently learned to use a drop spindle and would love to learn how to spin corn fibers.
Thank you.

Peni Jo Renner

Hi Peni;
Certain plant and animal fibers will work well with the drop spindle. The fibers should be fine and flexible, like cotton, dogbane, flax or wool. Short fibers should be able to bind onto itself, like the fibers in cotton and wool.

Corn husks can be made into cordage. You'll have to strip them into long thin pieces, then twist it into cordage. The corn husks are short, so you'll have to do a lot of splicing. Hydrate the corn husks first with water to make it pliable, then strip them before plying. In my opinion, corn husks don't work well with the drop spindle. The material is too short and it requires more work to constantly splice in stripped corn husks. But, experiment and give it a try.

Good luck on your project,
Dino Labiste

From: Susan Zakin
Subject: Reporter's query: tules vs. reeds

Susan, your question is based in a generalconfusion of the different types of marsh plants, which get lumpedtogether as tules, or cattails or reeds. Tules are more accuratelycalled bulrushes and are indeed sedges in the genus Scirpus. Cattailsare a separate family all their own and reeds usually refers tolarge grasses such as phragmites, although an unrelated cattail-likeplant is called Burreed. None of these names is very well fixedin the public mind. Rush chair seats for instance are made withcattail leaves. Sooo, the way you use these terms in your articledepends on how `scientific' you are trying to be. I would usereeds to mean phragmites, and tule or bulrush to mean Scirpusspp. (including alkali bulrush - Scirpus robustus), and cattailsto mean cattails.

Hope this has been helpful,
Norm

Thanks so much. That was actually very clear!
Susan

Can anyone on staff help me to understand the best means to harvest pine nuts from Pinus sabiana (aka Digger pine)? I have a supply of green cones currently.

Thank you for the guidance and the fine resources available at PrimitiveWays.com.

Regards,
Kent Jordan

(Chuck Kritzon responded to Kent's e-mail)
Hi Kent;
Gathering Digger pine nuts is basically a race with the animals. If you can get to fallen nuts that have not opened yet, just collect them and then store them in a warm place until they open up. In the heyday when I was gathering every year, I purchased a little round kiddie pool to store them in. Then as they opened, I took a stick a knocked them around to release the nuts, this kept them in one place for ease of gathering. How ever you process them its a sticky messy job. I also recommend using a cheap pair of canvas garden gloves as the hooks on the ends of the cone segments are VERY sharp. The gloves will become very sticky. When this happens just take some dry dirt and rub the gloves together.

The best place to find loose pine nuts is along roadways in the Central Sierra foothills. Later in the season when the cones fall, they impact the roadway scattering the nuts. The traffic tends to keep the animals back. HWY 49 between Drytown and Jackson offers many good places to stop and gather.

The shells are very hard and were a primary bead material for many California Native Peoples. Simply abrade off the ends and poke out the nut meat and eat it or rub it into the shell for a shine. They crack easily between two stones though and are worth the effort. Their food value was used by Maidu mothers who would feed a newborn a very fine gruel of pine nuts if she was having trouble with her milk coming in. The Native people would roast them by tossing the pine nuts in the air with hot coals with a flat basket. If the cones are placed in coals they tend to ignite due to the pitch.While you are gather pine nuts keep an eye out for the sap blisters that form over the branch where the cone detached. Some of these blisters can be fist sized. Pine pitch has many uses as you can read about at the PrimitiveWays site.

FYI: The Digger pine was named after the use of the now derogatory term, "digger indians" which the settlers and miners developed by their observation of the Native Women who they often saw digging for foodstuffs with their sticks. Ghost pine and Yellow pine are alternatives.Good luck with your gathering,

Regards,
ChuckKritzon

Hello April;
Thank you for your nice comments on my "Sycamore Membranophone"article.

I painted the drumhead with the juicefrom olive berries. An olive tree was growing near a creek. Whenthe berries ripened, they made an excellent paint source for creatingdesigns on the deer rawhide. The color was a deep reddish brown.Also experiment with the juice from blackberries or any berrythat has a dark color.

Colored minerals from the earth can bepowdered and mixed with a binder, like egg yolk, rendered fat,lard, salmon roe, or even saliva. You must finely powder the earthpigments to the consistency of flour or you'll get lumps in yourpainting.

Also finely, powdered charcoal from an open pit fire will giveyou a nice black color. Collecting the soot from burning pinepitch will provide an even better source for black pigment.

Sincerely,
Dino Labiste

Howdy, howdy, howdy Norm! I just found your site on the internetand you've done a beautiful job (along with your co-workers).Gaia and Kodiak and I have moved to the B.C. Coast and plan tosettle on Quadra Island. We are tentatively looking at hostinga skills gathering during the summer of 2003.

I have a couple of questions for you. Joe Dabill made somevery nice hand drill sets a few years ago from "coastal elderberry"with an alder board. I assume he means the red elderberry, Sambucusracemosa, and alder wood from the trunk or branch, rather thanthe root. Do you recall or have any thoughts on these materials?I have not yet tried the red elderberry, but the blue speciesI found to have too much pith and not enough side wall.

Do you have any information on what the Natives of CoastalB.C. used for hand drill fire sets? We have clematis and somecattail here. I have used big-leaf maple shoots, but found themeffective only on a very soft board. They make for a hot combinationwith a sotol board, but that's far from local availability. Ialmost certainly have tried the maple shoots on an alder board(trunk), though I can't remember for 100% certainty. I doubt thatI've tried the maple shoots on clematis vine. Of course, mulleingrows here. So, there are materials available for hand drill setshere, but what were the natives using?

Keep in touch.
Chris Morasky

Chris, good to here from you. Soundslike life's an adventure.

As to fire stuff. Red elderberry thatI've checked out has less side wall than Blue Elderberry, butthat is totally variable depending on how shaded it is. Full sunon blue elderberry gives lots of side wall, but not usually straight.Too much shade and you get really long straight and useless pieces.Elderberry growing in partial shade or fairly deep valleys providesstraight pieces with enough sidewall. I don't remember for surewhat Joe Dabill was using. I would think alder root would workbetter than the wood. Willow seems to be like that too. I havesome alder lumber that I'll have to try. My experience with Big-leafMaple is that only the water sprouts (root suckers) are low enoughdensity to be any good. The same with cottonwood and buckeye.As to what the natives used, my vague recollection is that theyused cedar for everything, including hearth boards. Drills canalso be cedar I think, although good elderberry, mulefat etc.should work well also. I think I have an ethnobotany of B.C. atwork, I'll see what I can find and let you know.

Norm

Hi,
I am a senior at the University of Hartford in Connecticut. Iam currently enrolled in a Native American Culture lecture andfor a class project I have to build a kayak. This seems like themost realistic model ["4 Hour Kayak" article in PrimitiveWays]I have found and would like more information. Where can I find"green willow shoots". . . .

Along almost any stream. Look for a shrubsized tree with small oval shaped leaves and green or light brownbark. The shoots will take a bend without breaking.

. . . . and how much do I need?

Fourteen 10 feet willows and fourteen7 feet willows, but cut extra also.

Is there a substitute?

You can use any flexible branches orsaplings that do not taper too radically.

Bob Gillis

I live in Asia with my four boys. I canpurchase Water Buffalo hides very cheap, but have no way of tanningthem so my boys can tool on the leather as I did as a boy in S.Texas. Do you have a tanning recipe solution.

Regi Schexnider

Hello Regi;
The simplest tanning recipe is to use the brains of the animalas the tanning solution. After you have scraped and prepared thehide, take the brain of the animal and cook it in a pot. Thenblend the cooked brain into a fine milk shake consistency (usinga blender or mashing with your hands). Put the mashed brains intoa bucket or tub and add hot water. You need add only enough waterto the brain to cover the hide, plus a little more. If you canleave your hand in the hot solution without any discomfort, thenthe temperature is OK. Anything that burns your hand will cookand damage your hide. Soak your raw hide in water until it ispliable, then wring it dry and stretch the hide open. After thepreliminary stretching, place it into the warm brain solutionfor two hours or overnight. When you are ready, wring the hidethoroughly and begin stretching until the hide is soft and dry.

Have fun on your tanning project,
Dino Labiste

Dino,
Thanks for writing me with this tanning solution for Water Buffalohides. I am a little squeamish when it comes to animal brainsbut I have some neighbors that live above me that are from theCarolinas that I am sure have done this type thing. They have3 girls and may not mind helping me on this project.

I am surprised there is no salt in thissolution; I have prepared alligator hides in S. Louisiana withsalt brine. Thanks again for your help. I'll ask my other Cajunfamily friends to start cleaning the Water Buffalo hides and makingsure they get all the extra flesh off. I saw a documentary onetime on Eskimos and they had their grandparents chew the excessflesh and the hide to keep it soft. We have no one old enoughhere to take this role, though my Cajun friends wife has livedon the Bayou a long time and would probably be suitable.

Thanks for your help,
Regi

Hello Regi;
If you don't want to use animal brains, here is another tanningrecipe. I've used it on the American buffalo hide that I am workingon. The hide is on a rack. I coat the solution with my hands,let it dry slightly, then using a wooden paddle that I made froman axe handle, procede to push and stretch the paddle into thehide. Here is the tanning recipe for one coating:

10 yolks
5 tablespoons of vegetable oil
Quarter bar of Ivory soap (grate bar of soap with cheese grater)
3 quarts of water

Depending on how soft and pliable youwant the hide, I use 4 seperate coatings of the solution to makea buffalo robe. For each coating, I work the hide until it's dry,then pre-smoke it. Three coatings are done on the rack and thefinal coating is rubbing the hide on a cable.

Hope this information helps you,
Dino Labiste

P.S.
I suspect that your use of salt brine on the alligator hides wasused for preserving the hide. The final smoking helps to preservea softened hide, as well as keep the hide from returning to rawhidewhen it gets wet. Did your alligator hide turn into a pliableleather or just rawhide when you used the salt brine?

I just pruned our elderberry tree and want to try making aflute. Are there guidelines for best temperatures and humidityfor drying the wood?

Thanks,
Joyce

Joyce;
Drying goes faster if you put the wood in a hot dry place, I oftenuse the dashboard of my truck. Rapid drying does run the riskof spits on the ends, so I try to cut staves a feww inches longerthan I will need. The wood will shrink in diameter as it dries,so make sure the piece is a bit bigger than you will want. Fora flute, I like to use a piece about a foot long, and with aninside diameter (once dry and hollowed out) of 5/8 inch.

Good luck,
Norm

Hi John;
The most important thing to realize is that there is meat on thetailbone. Left untreated, it will either dry out or rot. Bad newseither way. It won't look or feel as good unless it is braintanned.

The tail bone can be removed with a bitof perservence. To braintan any hide, the flesh side has to bescraped clean of the membrane layer. If you just want to peservethe tail, you can cure it with borax. That is curing, not tanning.You could probably freezedry the tail without removing the boneand meat, but I have not ever tried that method. Do some investigatingand see what you come up with.

So, to make a long story short, yes thetailbone, meat and membrane layer must be removed if you are goingto use the braintan method of tanning. Be gentle with the foxtail.They are thin skinned and will tear easily.

Good luck
Bill Scherer

Hi Norm;
I went to a nearby pond yesterday and wrestled with the cattails.I managed to yank out 8 or 10 knobby rhizomes. I tried peelingthem and boiling them for 30 minutes. At the end, they lookedas toughly fibrous as they had at the beginning. The kids joinedin with lighthearted bravery and we all chawed on them. "Hmm...tasteslike hempen rope! " It was hard to liberate the starch withour teeth. The smallest rhizomes, say 3/8 inch in diameter, werecrunchy and tasty, like a carrot. Quite good, actually. The whitecore of the new baby plants--boiled for 15 minutes--were perfectlyacceptable, too. I'm much more interested in the starchy stuff,though, since that is what is scarce in the woods.

I think that next time I'll try to mashthem up with a pestle or the like, and liberate the starch intoa bowl. A kitchen crushing tool might be more effective than myteeth. I'm hoping that approach will have a higher food valueto effort ratio. Do you have a preparation method that you recommend?

Also, do you resign yourself to wet shoesand socks, or do you have a harvesting trick to prevent that?It was 52 degrees, and I'm a wimp, so I wrapped my feet and legsin kitchen trash bags. My legs stayed dry, but both feet weresquelchy.

I hope that you are doing well!
Rhona Mahony

Rhona, sounds like you're getting intothis. Euell Gibbons (if you remember him) basically bashed therhyzomes up and soaked the mash in a bucket of water. Once separatedby running it through cheesecloth and letting the starch settleout, he used it like flour. I've prepared them by baking/roastingthe runners under the coals of a fire (in the hot ash layer) -they taste like fibery sweet potatoes. The new shoots are evengood raw, and taste like cucumber. The main base of the plantI haven't had much luck with, but there are so many rhyzomes Iwon't starve. Latter on, the flower tops can also be eaten. Ihave cooked the female flowers while still in their leaf sheathlike corn on the cob. They taste like green beans. This is bestwith the wide leaf cattail species. I avoid the male flowers becauseI'm allergic to the pollen, but Dick collects the pollen and usesit like flour. As to collecting, it's a pretty mucky affair. Therhyzomes are best harvested in wet mud, so........ do your best.

Good to hear from you,
Norm

Hey;
My name is Brad and I'm in the process of tanning a fox pelt usingyour instructions. I'm not sure if it's going to come out right,but I had a few questions for the next time that I attempt this.

It just so happened that I shot the fox in the head, so needlessto say, there were no brains for me to use. Instead, my dad shota deer the day before and I used the deer brains. The slurry cameout to look exactly like what your pictures. I was just wonderingif it mattered what kind of brains you use or if they're all thesame? I wasn't sure how long to cook the brains, so I just cookedthem for about 10 minutes on medium-high heat. Is this crucialhow long they are cooked? I left the brains on for 2 hours. Youlive in sunny California and I live in Maryland. It's about 45degrees outside. So, does the hide need to be in a warm area forthe brains to penetrate the skin? Do you remove the brains after2 hours? Do you soak the hide in something? Do you just stretchit with the brains on it? Do you stretch it constantly until itdries? Or do you stretch it every couple of hours or so?

Hello Brad;
Thank you for visiting the PrimitiveWays website. Studying andpracticing the old ways is a lot of fun. I will try to answeryour questions in the order that you wrote them There are manyways to tan furs, not a lot of hard rules. I have tanned quitea few fur bearing critters, and a lot more deer hides, so heregoes.

Most small fur bearing animals are "caseskinned", meaning they are taken off like a sock. The largestanimal I have "cased" is a coyote. Try to do most ofyour cutting from the flesh side to the outside, as this willleave the hair intact.

The skin of the ankles of all 4 legsare cut all the way around. Then the skin of the each rear legsis cut all the way up to the crotch, right under the base of thetail. Start peeling the skin off each leg. You may wish to cutoff the tail bone now, or peel the tail bone out later. Eitherway, the tail must be slit on the bottom, and all themeat andbone removed. Be very careful as the tail is quite thin and easyto tear. Any way, once the legs and tail are clear, the pelt canbe peeled off all the way up. The only sticking points will beon the ears and nose, but since you shot his head off that shouldnot be an issue.

The cleaner the hide, the easier it willtan. The worst is around the head with all of its nooks and crannies.The abdomen and legs should clean up quite easily. Most of thatcleaning can be done with a fleshing bar on the beaming log. Thenwipe the flesh side down with alcohol. That will remove most ofthe grease/fat. Finally. it is time to use the abrading type toolsas a final cleanup. Be very gentle as canine hide are real thinand can tear easily. The first time you do any task it takes longerthan if you are experienced. Take your time, be carefull, andenjoy the work.

I have used deer, pork, and antelopebrains. They all work. There are also some comercialsubstitutes,but I have not tried them yet. So I can't say much about them.Cooking of brains is a safety precaution. They could be used raw.I think 10 minutes at a low boil would be plenty.

Temperature is a very important point.The warmer the temperature of the brains, the better they soakinto the pelt. Try to use a heated shed, or freeze the pelt untilsummer.

After the pelt has been brained for ahour or two, take it out and gently stretch it acrossa stake.Most of the brains will have soaked in, a little excess can bediscarded.You can then stretch it as much as you wish. The bestway to insure that you will have a nice pelt is to work it moreor less constantly until it is dry. This is most important atthe end, when it is turning from
just damp to absolutly dry. If you miss this stage the hide willturn rather stiff.

I hope this helps. A hands-on teachingis much better way of learning this kind of thing. If you everhave a chance to work with someone who has done this sort of thing,you will learn much more than through written text. But it canbe done.

Good luck and happy tanning,
Bill Scherer

Ken:
I have gathered some acorns. How do you make them edible?

Donald Parker

Donald:
Due to the high concentration of tanins, the ground acorn meatshave to be thoroughly leached to remove the bitter flavor. Thenit can be prepared in a number of ways: adding to baking recipes,cooking into a mush, baking into patties, etc. I highly recommendthe following book as a great reference on how to prepare acornsfor eating: "It Will Live Forever", by Beverly Ortiz,published by Heyday Books.

Happy eating!
Ken Peek

Hello Roberta;
I'm at the stage now where I have enough furs and hides for myown uses. The last few hides I have tanned have been for otherpeople. I have a fur hat (coyote), a river otter quiver, and somebeaver that will be sewn into a sleeping blanket. Still haven'tdone anything with the fox pelts. I think my daughter will havethe sharpest looking foxskin hat in her elementry school (andthe only one). I have two raccoon pelts that I should do somethingwith as well. I like to save my pelt sewing projects for the winter,.That way I can do something primitive while being inside the house.

Check out the article, "What to Do with Your Roadkill RaccoonSkin? Make a Bag!", by my friend, Markus Klek, on the primitivewayswebsite. I plan on something like that with one of my pelts. Thereare some patterns available from Crazy Crow traders and braintan.com.One pattern I have is the "free trappers hat", sortalike a Daniel Boone thing with a leather visor. I know one guywho said his daughters used muskrat pelts to play with insteadof dolls.

Good luck and keep in touch.
Bill Scherer

Hello Darren;
Good to hear you joined the Society of Primitive Technology andbecame a member. The non-profit organization appreciates yourhelp. You'll also receive your two, yearly issues of the "Bulletinof Primitive Technology", the SPTs periodical that containsvarious articles on early technology and Stone Age skills.

There are several ways to cure a birdwing. First of all, you can either skin the bird wing by carefullyremoving all the meat and bones in the wing (keep the skin andfeathers only) or you can just cut off the wing at the joints,remove as much of the meat as possible and keep the bones on theskin and feathers. Here are two ways for curing the wing:

1) Sprinkle the entire wing with Borax,let it sit for a few days in the hot sun until the skin driesup, then dust off the Borax. Pour a generous amount of Borax onthe inside of the skin and bone area.
2) Mix an equal part of water and rock salt, submerge the entirewing in the solution for 2 weeks, rinse out the wing in freshwater, then let it dry in the sun.

When you find a roadkill and it has beenout in the open for sometime, flies may have deposited their eggson the carcass. The incubation period is short for insects andthe fly eggs, when given the right amount of heat and moisture,will hatch immediately into maggots. Process your bird wing assoon as possible. When you have your wing skinned out, you mayproceed to cure the wing by the above methods or if you do nothave the time to cure it, place the wing in a ziplock bag andfreeze it. The freezing process will kill most insect eggs. Thenwhen you have the time, thaw out the wing and cure it. Freezingwill also help kill any mites that could be on the feathers.

To remove the feathers you may eitheruse these two methods. Carefully pluck the feathers by hand. Graspthe lower tip of the quill and gently pry out the feather. Ifthe roadkill is fresh and the sinew and meat has not dried out,the quill will pull out easily. The other method is to heat upsome water and pour the hot fluid only on the area of the quillthat is adhering to the skin. You do not want to get the featherswet. The feathers should pluck out with ease.

Good luck on your project,
Dino Labiste

Dear Mr. Scherer,
I am sorry to bother you, but I recently came across an article of yours on the internet at http://www.primitiveways.com/foxtan/Tanafox.htm. I have never done this before and am not sure where to start. I am using your article as my main reference. I only have the tail and wish to tan it so it does not become stiff. I am attempting to learn as much as I can and gather all the needed materials before starting this task. One question I have is that in your picture of smoking the two pelts I noticed that it did not look like you smoked the tail, but only the body and up where the leg of the jeans started. Also, is your planner blade like a razor blade or is it just a flat blade that is duller. Is there a substitute for brains if I cannot find them?

I was wondering if you had any other tips or for someone not so familiar with this.

Thank you,
Sean Burke

Hello Sean;
Never a problem to talk about tanning. As for the tail smoking, this has been a problem I have never come up with a good solution. I don't remember what I did for those particular foxes in the article, but Here is a few things I have done throuhout the years.
1. This one gave me the best results, but takes the most time. Sew the tail skin into a split in the tanning skirt. This leaves the flesh side exposed to the smoke, but not the fur.
2. The second method is to hold the tail by hand into a stream of smoke, directing the smoke onto the flesh side of the skin. This is done when tanning a deerskin, and some smoke is leaking out of the deerskin where there is a hole.

I would like encourage you to try tanning an entire pelt, not just the tail. The tail is a very fragile piece, and cannines are very thin skinned creatures.

Good luck,
Bill

The planer blade for scraping the fat, meat and membrane off the hide is not sharp like a razor blade. It's edge is bevelled on one side. You can substitute brains with egg yolks. There is a formula, if you use egg yolks.

Regards,
Dino Labiste

Mr. Kidder: For a fictional book I'm currently researching, I'd like to know which central California tribes (Yosemite, Central Valley, Monterey-SF coast) used tule. If you can quickly tell me a few names of tribes, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thank you,
Summer Brenner

Summer;
Tules were used by most, if not all central California tribes,depending on their availability. All the people in the centralvalley - Yokuts, Miwok, Patwin, Nisenan, Konkow, Maidu, Wintuand Nomlaki; the Pomo around Clear Lake, all the Bay area people,Ohlone (including the Monterey and Santa Cruz areas: Mutsun, Rumsien),Miwok, Salinan. The only tribes that would not have used tulewere ones that didn't have access to them.

The were used for boats, roofs, bedding,mats, baskets, cradles, clothing, decoys and more, with each tribehaving their own variations. Let me know if you need more specificinfo.

Norm Kidder

Hello Allen;
Let me recommend 3 books that might be of interest:
1. "Survival Arts of the Primitive Paiutes" by MargaretM. Wheat, ISBN 0-87417-048-6
There's a chapter that details the making of a Paiute boat ofcattail and tule. The tule balsa, in this book, is a one personboat. Good photos.
2. "Tule Technology, Northern Paiute Uses of Marsh Resourcesin Western Nevada" by Catherine S. Fowler, Smithsonian FolklifeSeries, Number 6
There's a chapter entitled, The Tule Balsa Boat, with 3 subtitles:Constructing a Tule Balsa Boat, Tule Balsa Boats in Use, and Boatsin Other Areas.
3. "Survival Skills of Native California" by Paul Campbell,ISBN 0-87905-921-4
There's a section called How California Indians Made Tule Balsas,pgs. 390-395

All three books are good reference materialsfor constructing a tule balsa. Keep in mind that every differentNative California culture that constructed tule boats had differentstyles of design. The tule boat designs up north, south, and inthe Great Basin may look slightly different in construction. Ifyou are going to be true to the Gabrielino tule boat in your area,do your research. I don't have any information on their styleof tule boats, but contacting the Gabrielino people in your areamight provide some insight. Also, Campbell's book deals more withthe California Native Americans down south, so his book may providesome information.
Universities in your area may also help. Contact the AnthropologyDepartment or do research in the university libraries.

Or contact another member of our websitegroup - Norm Kidder. Norm is the supervising naturalist at Sunol-OhloneRegional Wilderness. His expertise is in the California NativeAmerican cultures. Norm and his wife, Jan (she's also a naturalistat Coyote Hills Regional Park), undertook a tule boat constructionproject a few years back and floated the boat from one regionalpark to another regional park in the bay. One of the tule boatsis in the Coyote Hills Regional Park Visitor Center. You can contactNorm Kidder at atlatl1@aol.com

Hope this information helps,
Dino Labiste

Hello Allen,
I'm afraid I don't have a step-by-step set of instructions foryou. Last year I met a man from the Santa Ynez Chumash reservationwho said that he had made tule boats in the traditional way.

Two good books: "California IndianWatercraft" by Richard W. Cunningham, ISBN 0-945092-01-6and "Survival Arts of the Primitive Paiutes" by MargaretM. Wheat, ISBN 0-87417-048-6. They are both good books.

Dick Baugh

(Question pertaining to how many hoursfor net making)

David, to answer your question I wouldneed to know a couple of other details - what type of string isbeing used, and what is the guage of the net (size of the openings).The time taken is a function of how many knots need to be tied,and the number of times that a new piece has to be added in (howmuch string can be put on a netting needle at a time - i.e. theweight of the string. As an example, I made a net four feet byeleven feet with a distance between knots of three inches in abouttwenty hours out of heavy cotton string. For an experienced person,figure about 5 seconds per knot. To figure the number of knotsin a 10' x 10' net, if the knots are two inches apart (good forcatching medium sized fish) . . . . a quick calculation comesout to about 16 - 20 hours for your10' x 10' net for an experiencedperson who is very motivated and undistracted. Two or three timesthat for a novice. My other question, is a 10' x 10' net efficientfor seining? It would seem that a longer narrower net would dobetter - maybe 5' x 20' or 30 feet.

Hope this helps,
Norm

Robert Bailey wrote:

In regards to your article on how to tan a fox hide, couldI ask first, where the brains come from and how to properly preparethem for the tan, which seem to be a big secret in most of thearticles I have read. I would like to try it myself, maybe evenwith a deer hide.

Thanks,
Robert

Hello Robert,
My usual source of tanning brains is a Asian supermarket abouta mile from my house. They sell pig brains, as well as some otherunusual parts of various animals. Some Mexican supermarkets sellbeef brains. Any large supermarket will probably be able to supplybeef or pork brains, although you might have to ask. When I wasgrowing up on my dads farm, we used to bury the cow heads alongwith the entrails and other stuff we thought inedible. Try contactingsome local farmers, maybe they can help.

Sometimes I get the hides from hunters,so I usually ask them for the animal brains as well. One noteof caution here is deer in some parts of the country are testingpositive for Chronic Wasting Disease. So far CWD has not provento jump species, but lets be careful until more data is in. Ifyou live in one of these areas you probably should use a porkbrain, or not use brains at all. As a substitute for brains youcan substitute egg yokes, soap flakes or lechatin. I once usedbeaten egg yokes, and they worked fine.

Prepping the brain is a very simple thing.Step one: the brain must be squished into a thick liquid. Theeasiest way is a blender, egg beaters will work, or you couldmash it up with your fingers. Put a little water into the blender,toss in the brain and hit puree. Step two: cook the brain forabout 15 minutes, sort of a low boil. Cooking the brain is notreally necessary for tanning, but will lessen any chances of infectionshould you have any cuts on your hands. I have never had any infections,but I know people who have. Of course I do not start any tanningif I have any cuts or sores on my hands. After the brain has cooledoff enough where you can put your hands in without any pain, applyit to the hide. Too hot will cook the hide, too cold will notpenetrate the hide as well.

There are a few variations on the brainprep. My latest experiments are to rinse out one of my smokingskirts, and add that sooty water to add to the brains. This hasa few benefits, one is as a preservative to the brain. It alsoimproves the smell (brains smell a bit funky). If you can, getan experienced tanner to show you the ropes. If you can get toone of the many primitive skills gathering, there is usually someoneteaching brain tanning. There is much that can go wrong if youdon't know what you are looking at. Check out the books and magazinessection on the PrimitiveWays website, and pick up one of the bookson the subject.

Good luck and keep in touch.
Bill Scherer

Dear Mr Kidder;
My name is Chris Steer. I have recently become interested in primitivetechnology and was very interested to read about the beveled elderwoodflute in your article about musical instruments of Central America(a longer standing hobby of mine is learning to play and makefolk wind insruments). I was wondering if you knew that this fluteis very similar to that played in parts of Europe and the NearEast,. In the Ukrain, it is known as a sopilka, in Macedonia asshupilka, ,and in Bulgaria as a small kaval (these instrumentsare in turn related to the Balkan kaval and the Arabic ney). Ihave made a few elder "shupilkas", in much the samestyle as in your article, but with a penny whistle scale..I havea nicely lathe-turned one from Macedonia, which is fatter at theblowing end and tapers a bit like a recorder. Interestingly, italso tapers insde. It's bored out at three different widths. Theplaying style used for kavals and what I use on the shupilka isdifferent to that in you article. I don't hold the flute straightin front, like a South American quena, nor like a transverse flute,but somewhere in between so that I am blowing on the "side"of the bevel, a little bit out of the side of the mouth, usingthe whistling shape you describe. Finally, I remember readingabout a long Ukrainian bevel flute used mainly at funerals, whichis commonly played with the humming techique you talk about.

Power to your elbow,
Chris Steer
Ceske Budejovice
Czech Republic

Chris, thank you for your information.I wrote that article you mentioned many years ago, and have senselearned more myself. Other people have told me about similar flutesin other parts of the world as well. Thank you for the very specificinformation from Europe. As to playing them, just this year afriend whom I had gotten started on the flutes had learned morefrom a Native American man and taught me to play it better, andas you described. I now play the elder flute held at about a 40%angle to one side, and stightly down, blowing across the fartherbeveled edge (the edge need not be beveled to get sound, but ismore comfortable on the lips, and clearer toned). I find a numberof effects are possible, somewhat like a didgeridoo, using changesinside the mouth to affect the sound. In California, from whatI have been told, the flutes are not uniformly bored out beyondthe natural hollow, they may be crooked, tapered or not. The holesdon't correspond to the European scale, although I find many ofmine can play traditional American or European tunes, half coveringholes as necessary to change the pitch. I hope to rewrite my articlesomeday soon, and may include the information you sent.

Thank you,
Norm Kidder

I have a question. I am brain tanning a deer hide. I have scraped it and will be soaking tonight. I'll apply the brain solution. I
will set that overnight, then smoke it tomorrow morning. How long should I smoke the hide?

Tom

Hello Tom;
I'm afraid there is no exact answer. There are a lot of variables that are specific to each deer hide you smoke. Such as: how thick the hide is, what fuel you are using, what color you want the hide to be, are you smoking both sides, and what method you are using. The smoking is done when the smoke has completely penetrated the hide and it is the color you want it to be. Make sure the hide is completely dry and pliable before you begin smoking, unless you are doing the presmoke method. There are whole chapters written about this subject, I suggest Matt Richards book, "Deerskins into Buckskins", "How to Tan With Natural Materials", "A Field Guide for Hunters and Gatherers and Buckskin", "The Ancient Art of Braintanning Buckskin", and "The Ancient Art of Braintanning" by Steven Edholm and Tamara Wilder.

Good luck,
Bill

Hi Gerald!
Thanks for the question. Melting and working with pine sap andpitch has always been a problem for me too. Even at the many primitiveskills classes I attended over the years, pitch was usually heatedup in a tin can!

In recent years I have been using shellsof various types. Scallop shells although not large enough todo a big batch of pitch, works really well. They can be acquiredat restaurant supply stores and some nature shops. I have triedusing abalone shells which are larger, but they cannot take theheat and will delaminate and crack.

I have also used large flat stones placedover a low fire or one that has been heated in coals for a while.Then by using a stick to keep maneuvering the pitch as it melts,you can melt quite a lot of pitch. You can also improve a flatstone by pecking a slight depression in the surface with anotherstone. It would not take to long to actually make a slightly concavestone to process pitch with. You would have to be careful notto heat the stone to quickly as there is always the chance ofthe stone cracking or splitting.

To avoid any kind of thermal stress problemyou can also shape a bowl out of soapstone (steatite) to heatpitch in. The soapstone can be heated repeatedly with out crackingor splitting. You can shape soapstone quickly using antler toolsshaped as follows: grind or cut a fairly thick portion of an antlertine (approx. 1/2" to 3/4" diameter), at an angle tocreate a chisel shape. The tool can be used like this, but tomake the tool really effective, file or grind with a sharp thinstone or modern saw to make tines out of the chisel shape likea stone sculptors chisel. This is really effective and allowsyou to shape the soapstone very quickly. This tool was used forshaping soapstone by the native peoples who inhabited the southeastregion of the United States.

Another tip to making pitch, is to gatherclean sap to start with. I always thought that you needed to usedthe clear sticky drips and blisters that form on pine trees, butyou can also use the dry, hard patches of pitch that form on thebranch where a pine cone has come off. It melts and can be usedjust as well as the clear sticky stuff. If you can find a placewhere logging is going on, you can climb through the piles ofbranches the loggers leave and gather buckets of this dry pitch.Many old timers have told me they prefer the dry patches of pitchover the sticky stuff. I like to gather sap this time of yearas the patches tend to just snap off the branch and are less stickyto handle.

To actually mix the heated sap with groundcharcoal, you don't even need to use a container. Just make alittle mountain shape pile of the charcoal powder with a depressionin the top so it looks like a volcano. Then you pour your meltedsap into the depression then work the charcoal into it from theedges to the center. You can then just pick up the mixture andwork it like taffy, pulling and stretching it until it is mixed.Keep plenty of charcoal dust on your fingers to keep it from stickingto you.

I hope this helps. Please get back intouch with me with any follow up questions.
Chuck Kritzon

Chuck,
Yes, your hints were quite helpful. Thank you.

I know the technique of pecking a stone, I am quite an accomplishedknapper. Using the pecking and abrading method, I have made somestone grinding tools for grain and getting the meat from nutsand acorns. Having cooked some of the best steaks ever eaten onflat stone I also know of the dangers of heating stone.

Using shell was a new idea, I read about it in your web page.The problem lies in my type of survival techniques. Dependingon the location of the particular outing, i.e.. Louisiana, themay be no shell, and the only stone, if very lucky will be softsand stone or low grade iron ore.

Your gracious response has given me some ideas. My problemin the past was starting with pitch laden particles and tryingto render it (as you would lard.) Starting with nearly pure pitchin the first place, perhaps any "platform" could beused. I will try soil patties (mud pies) not even qualifying forpottery. The soil used could be placed on a bit of a earth pedestalas to allow a deeper bed of coals under it. I suppose any soilwith enough tensile strength to retain its shape and dry quicklyin the fire would work. Perhaps support by green sticks within.(brain storming as I go here) maybe several green twigs 9 incheslong or so and pencil thick set up in a squat tipi fashion wouldsupport semi-clay bearing soil well enough to create a tall depressionfor heating. Ideas worth experimenting with.

Thank you for your help. My goal is to be able to produce enoughpitch to water proof a cooking basket. Using a hide container,or other animal part for liquid boiling is sometimes difficultto obtain on some outings. I am however allowing a change of rules."If you make it using primitive techniques and supplies itcan come." This will open up the opportunity for hide glue,small pottery, and considerable amounts of cordage, as well assome tools.

Your help has been good. Thanks for the ideas.
Do you know of any primitive skills gatherings anytime soon? Andwith in about 800 miles of NorthWest Louisiana? Having found thesesources on the web has been a boon. I've been doing, learning,teaching and researching "survival techniques" sinceI was in my teens (nearly 30 years) finding the web has been great!

Gerald

Hello again Gerald,
I had another thought about a container for heating pitch. I havenever tried it, but a turtle shell should hold together long enoughto heat pitch. I don't think it could stand up to intense heator repeated heating as it would delaminate, but with the steadyheat of a bed of coals it should work. This is only a guess. Iknow you have turtles in your area so I thought I would pass onthe idea. Plus snappers are pretty good eating!

Good luck and let me know how it worksif you try out this technique.

Regards,
Chuck Kritzon
PrimitiveWays clan

Chuck;
I have had an opportunity to experiment with different methodsof working pitch. I have worked in a simple, crude pottery andfound it to work fine. This weekend, on an outing, I found a Threetoed box turtle shell. All that had remained was the shell plates.It held together for several batches of pitch. After a while thefractures became porous to the pitch and it
eventually broke. But not until I had melted and cleaned a sandwichsize, zip lock bag full of pine sap. The short of it is that itwill work even with an old shell.

Gerald

Dear Mr. Scherer;
Do you have any idea how to process squirrel skins so that theywould be soft and pliable? And what is "braining". Canyou give me the exact ingredients?

Hi Dave;
There is a lot of factors that go into making a fur pelt soft.The biggest factor is how much work the tanner wants to put intothe pelt. Braining is applying mashed up animal brains and a bitof water mixture to the flesh side of the pelt. Basically, youput some brains into a blender with a bit of water and hit puree.

Follow these basic steps for tanning fur bearing pelts: Cleanthe flesh side well, removing all the membrane. Apply the mashedup animal brains (or substitute egg yokes and soap flakes) tothe flesh side. Keep the fur side dry, brain only the flesh side.Wrap the pelt up in a plastic bag and let it soak in. After awhile,(30 minutes or so) take out the pelt and start stretching theskin. When it is completely dry, and hopefully soft, smoke theflesh side. If the result is not as soft as you wish, then brainand soften it again. Sometimes it takes that one extra step tomake something you can be proud of.

Look over the pelt tanning article for more detail or check outwww.braintan.com. I have tanned a fair amount of furs, but nevera squirrel.

Let me know how it turns out.

Good luck;
Bill Scherer

(Inquiry on where to purchase ti leaves for receipes.)

I live in Southern California. Can you help?

Hello;
A local source of ti leaves in your area are florist shops. Tileaves are also used for floral arrangements. Contact your localflorist and find out if they sell the GREEN ti leaves. There aredifferent hybrids of ti plants and the various colors are alsoused in floral arrangements. You want the green ti leaves thatwere traditionally used for cooking in Hawaii. Inform the floristthat you will be using the leaves for cooking purposes. You don'twant any chemicals sprayed onto the leaves that may get into yourfood. Most of the ti leaves from the florist are food safe, butjust in case, inquire. Not all the florist carry this item, socall around until you find one that sell ti leaves. Also pricesvary amongst the different florist. Find one that has the cheapestprice.

Another alternative is to contact tileaf distributors in Hawaii. Do a search on the internet.

If you are only going to use just a fewti leaves, it might be best to contact your local florist as opposeto buying in bulk from ti leaf distributors.

Sincerely,
Dino Labiste

Greetings!
I found your email address on-line. We have been trying to bendhickory with no success. We wondering if you may be able to providehints of success.

We built a nifty little steam box that generates a constanttemp. of 200 degrees F. We have lenghts of hickory with the followingdimensions: 6 foot long, 1.75 inches by 1.25 inches thick. Wehave tried steaming for both 2 hours and for 4 hours. Each timethe stick broke.

Now, our wood is kiln dried but, we thought we might stillbe able to bend the wood.

1) Should we use green wood?
2) Should we soak the kiln dried wood and then attempt to steamand bend?
3) How long should we steam for? Most literature says 1 hour perinch of thickness. Is this squared inch of thickness? for our6 foot and 1.75 X 1.25 inch thick....should we steam it for 2or 4 hours?
4) Once bent, how long should we leave on the mold/frame?
5)Any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance for your assistance, suggestions, and expertise.

Hello Rodney, sorry to take so long,but the holidays kept me busy. First, if your steamer is givingtemperatures of 200 degrees, it may not be hot enough. Since yourwood is quite dry, I would take a sample and try boiling it for20 or 30 minutes and trying that. Tim Baker, one of the authorsof the Bowyers Bible had me do that with an Osage Orange stavethat was dry. Mine was a bit thinner, but it bent in 20 minutesin boiling water. Otherwise it sounds like you've got the rightideas - soaking first especially. The thickness is relative tothe time it takes the heat to penetrate, so refers to the thickestarea. (1.25 inches in your case). Experiment with scraps untilit works. As to how long to leave it in the mold, I wouldn't bein a hurry to take it out. It needs to cool and dry out - andthat will depend on your climate. If you can wait a week, thatwouldn't hurt. Moisture will soften the wood and let it rebound.If you have trouble with it returning to straight, you may wantto sinew cover the inside curves and/or waterproof the stave.

Good luck,
Norm

(Question pertaining to tanning a fox tail)

Hello Paul;
The answer to every question starts with "That depends".I need a bit more information in order to answer your question.Tell me about the fox tail. Is it dried, fresh, salted, or stillon the fox? Is it split open or still in a tube? Has the tailbone been removed? Is it a Grey, Red, cross, or maybe a Articwhite fox? Have you done any tanning at all? For a first timetanner, a fox tail is a very delicate project. Do you want tolearn the art of tanning, or do you just want a fox tail? I willbe happy to help as much as possible.

Bill Scherer

From: "Pond Scum" <pondscum@maine.rr.com>

Sorry about the lack of info I sent you before, I didn't realizeyou needed all the details about it. It's still on the fox inthe cold of my garage. It's (the fox) been there for 1 day (it'sSunday as I type this). It's a Red fox, good size, and I wantjust the tail. I would like to save the tail for my wife to putin her car on the mirror, or if my daughter wins out, she wantsthe tail for her room. I have never done any tanning before, asfor learning the art of tanning, I'm letting this experence happenbefore I decide if I want to do more of it. Oh . . . why am Ibothering you about one fox tail? I saw your webpage and I likedthe way you explained the WHOLE process of tanning a fox, anddecided to take a chance that you'd be willing to explain to mewhat I needed to know to keep the tail.

Hello Paul;
I would like to recommend that you try to tan the entire fox pelt,not just the tail. If you wish to have a tail to fly on the antenna,those are available commercially from www.moscowhideandfur.com.or Crazy Crow Traders for just a couple of dollars. A fox tailis the most delicate part of the pelt, one mistake could ruinthe entire tail. I speak from the experience of ruining my firstattempt. However, if you are going to tan only the tail, get itskinned and frozen immediately. Use a small slender blade, cutfrom the inside to the outside, on the bottom side of the tail.Keep it frozen until tanning time. Tanning should take place ina warm environment, so you may wish to wait until spring, or workinside a heated shed.

Remove all the membrane for the flesh side of the tail, be verygentle here. I like to use something abrasive like pumice or sandpaper.Then get an egg yoke and beat it. Apply the yoke to the fleshside, put it into a bag, and let it soak in for an hour or two.Take it out and begin to manipulate it until it dries out. Next,you will have to come up with some sort of smoking scheme. Ilike to sew the tail into the seam of an old pair of jeans, furon the outside, flesh on the inside. Start a small smoky fire,add punky wood, and suspend you smoking rig over the fire untilthe tail is smoked.

I hope this helps. Check out www.braintan.com. There is an verygood article there about fox tannig written by George Michard.

Bill Scherer

Hello Norm!
I just sent you a letter and photos but forgot to ask you something.I've collected old crusty pitch from a driftwood log at a marshand have tried to use it to glue points onto arrows and a pumpdrill, and as a soaproot brush handle. Whether I add nothing,powdered charcoal or powdered egg shell, the resulting hardenedmaterial (I don't let the pitch boil) is very brittle, which spellsdisaster when these tools are used. The soaproot handle is fine,however. I wonder:

1. Perhaps the pitch has been degraded by salt at the ocean.
2. I'm not adding the right amounts of the "temper"(shell, charcoal).
3. I'm not adding the right type of temper.
4. Maybe you have experience/knowledge that can assist my endeavor!

I've also collected gooey, tarry asphaultum from a nearby creek--naturalexudate from upstream. It is of the consistency of molasses. Isthere a way to prepare it so that it hardens for use as a glue?It certainly doesn't come off my hands, so I'd like it to notcome off my arrows, etc. but be dry and reasonably hard and elastic.Any ideas?

Storm

Storm,
As to your questions on pitch:

1. Salt water degrading? Maybe, I don'thave much experience with that.
2. Adding enough temper? I had the best results when I added enoughtemper (ground charcoal and ground deer dung) so that the warmedpitch was no longer sticky, then add just enough additional pitchto get it sticky again.
3. The right kind of temper? Stuff that's a bit stringy seemsthe best.
4. My experience? A bit limited, but I think Chuck Kritzon andsome of the others at PrimitiveWays will have input, I forwardedyour e-mail to all of them.

Asphaultum too gooey - - the only thingI can think to do is heating it slowly to drive off the lightermaterial. I've only used the commercial roofing tar myself asthere isn't any natural stuff around here.

Norm

Hello Dick,
Quick question: How do you extract pine pitch from the tree. I'veseen pitch running out of wounds on some trees, but this is notoften. I would like to do some experimenting with pitch as a wet/dampmaterial firestarter. Will pine pitch stay in liquid form if youstore it in a plastic bag?

Thanks for any input!
Joe Musselwhite

Hello Joe,
I am sure that by now with your experience as an outdoor survivalstudent and teacher that in the woods you keep your eyes openfor things that "normal" people wouldn't know existed.Ah! There's a bow stave. I'll bet that sapling would make a goodatlatl dart. That rock has a hollow which is perfect for a bowdrill socket. The list goes on and on. What I'm saying is tuneyour looking in to pitch nodules on conifers. I have heard thatthe natives where I live (San Francisco Bay region) would bashthe sides of pine and fir trees to induce the production of resin.Resinous pieces of bark would be pulled off to use as torches.

Pitch, or resin, consists of a solid,nonvolatile component (rosin as used on a fiddle bow) and a volatilecomponent (turpentine). Tarheels from North Carolina were involvedin the production of pine tar and turpentine from pine resin.I'm not sure, but I think the turpentine component will probablyslowly evaporate through a plastic bag.

Regards,
Dick

Hello;
Here are some references for knotless netting stitches and patterns:

1) SPT Bulletin of Primitive Technology#17 - Spring 1999 - Fibers
"Looped String Bags" by Bonnie Montgomery, pages 19- 22
(To order the magazine, access: http://www.primitive.org/backissues.htm).

2) "Androgynous Objects, StringBags and Gender in central New Guinea" by Maureeen A. MacKenzie,
ISBN 90-5702-270-2
(The indigenous women of central New Guinea are master craftswomenat weaving intricate bilums (knotless string bags). If you canfollow the drawings and explanations in the book, it's worth getting.Buy the paperback book, it's a lot cheaper. I checked out thebook from the Stanford University library to peruse it beforeI purchased the book. You can also order it through our website:http://www.primitiveways.com/pt-books.html).

3) "Creative Ropecraft" byStuart Grainger, ISBN 1-57409-115-8
(Grainger has a section on various half hitches that can be incorporatedinto string bag patterns. You can also order this book from ourwebsite: http://www.primitiveways.com/pt-books2.html).

If you can't afford to buy any of thebooks mentioned above, your local library or the university/collegelibraries are good sources of information. If the books are available,the information is free.

As far as any sources of waxed linenor other materials used, access: http://www.primitiveways.com/stores.html
Scroll down to "The Caning Shop". They have a websiteand do mail orders. The Caning Shop sells various colors and sizesof waxed linen and other type of strings and cordage.

Sincerely,
Dino Labiste

(Hide tanning thoughts from Bill Scherer)

Hello Sue;
I would love to share tanning ideas with you. Here are a few thingsI have discovered in the last few years that you might be ableto use.

AIRFLOW: A big problem for tanning here in the midwest. Wehave fairly high humidity, and the hides dry quite slowly. I sometimesuse a big window fan to aid moisture removal. This has the sidebenefit of keeping the tanner cool and blows away the mosquitoes!

WARMTH: The hood of my pickup truck in the sun. Put the hideon the (clean) hood to warm up the hide a bit. Work the hide byhand while on the hood.

PRESMOKE: After the initial braining and softening, smoke thepelt in the normal manner. Once it is presmoked, the second braining/softeninggoes a whole lot easier. The softening agent penetrates the skineasier and the softening goes much easier.

SOFTENING AGENTS: Since coming here (Minnesota), I no longerhave access to pork brains via the Asian market called Ranch 99.So now I use egg yokes and grated up Ivory soap bars. Ivory soaphas the big advantage of not attracting Yellow Jackets! It smellsnicer than brains too, so Amy doesn't make disparaging remarks.And finally, it costs less than brains and stores without refrigeration.

AGE THE HIDE: This works well for leather, not furs. I foundthat deer hides that were aged for 1 to 2 years seem to take thesoftening agent better. I think this has sometime to do with themucus in the hide breaking down over time.

LOTS OF & EXTREME PRESSURE HAND WRINGING, FOR LEATHER NOTFUR: I don't even bother trying to soften unless there are goodbubbles being forced through the skin, from flesh side to hairside. I really reef on the wringing sticks, and force the brainsto penetrate the skin.

DO THE HIDE IN STAGES: Once my equipment is in place, it iseasier to go from hide to hide without changing gears. I usuallyflesh my pelts immediatly after skinning, and let them dry. ThenI will dehair and scrape several hides during a 2 day weekend.Then during another weekend I will brain 2 to 4 hides on Fridayevening, then refrigerate them until Saturday morning. Then theyget softened during Saturday and Sunday. What I can't get to,will be frozen. Freezing is supposed to help penetration of thesoftening agents, but I have never noticed any difference. I liketo do the smoking during the Fall season.

Well, those are my thoughts for the moment. I suppose tanningis my favorite primitive skill. Certainly the one I do the mostof here in Minnesota. There is much better quality of furs, andI am not above picking up a nice looking roadkill!

During the July heat wave, I softened two deer leathers onone Saturday, and another the next morning. This is my personalbest. If I had pushed it I could have done another Sunday afternoon.This happened when my family was in Europe, so no distractionsfor me. A lot of guys like to party when the wife is away, butI like to work on dead animal parts. I must be strange.

Bill Scherer

Thanks for any info you can give me.

Hello Norman;
I'm assuming you are interested in fur pelts, not leather, soI will address this reply as such. There is a lot of variationson how to tan fur pelts. Because I tan the pelts in stages (cleaningone day, braining and stretching on another day, smoking on another,ect.), it just works out well for me to dry them between stages.Certainly you could brain the pelt right after cleaning. I alwaysstretch the pelt after the brain has soaked in for a few hours.Don't try to stretch a pelt that is dried out, it must be in amoist and limber state.

I am a single tasking kinda guy, so I like to concentrate on onepelt at a time during the softening stage. A hide will have someparts that dry out before the rest of it. This way I am sure todiscover any spots that must be worked harder. Try it for yourselfand see what works. Other stages of the process (cleaning, smoking)are more suited for multiple pelts at a time.

Hope this helps,
Bill Scherer

From: The Skinners
Hi Bill;
Thanks for the info. I meant to email you right back but somethingstole a couple of my skins that I was working on. I didn't feellike doing much of anything afterwards. But I'm back on the ballnow. The Braintan.com Store has patterns for fur hats if you'restill looking.

Hello Norman;
I have been out of town for a few days, and just saw your emailtoday. Never a bother to chat about one of my favorite subjects.

Everybody seems to have problems withcritters eating their pelts. Another advantage to dried peltsis they can be locked up. I keep the "in progress" peltsin a utility closet. I will check out the pattern info on theBraintan.com Store as well. Thanks a lot.

As far as degreasing goes, I think itmakes it easer to remove the membrane layer (inner most layerof the hide) and helps with the penetration of the brains. I havenever tried it without degreasing, but I will do some consultingof the literature.

I use a couple of different size PCVpipes. One of them has the end cut at an angle, so I can hookthe critters nose on it. Even so, the face is a very difficultarea to work. What you can't get out with the fleshing tool canbe abraded out after the pelt has dried. I use the rake to hookunder my fence, slide a 3 foot chunk of PCV over the rake handle,then a wooden brace to hold the rake handle up an angle, and thena second chunk of PCV. This second chuck is what I use for theactual beaming surface. The second chunk can be sized to matchthe work. Hope this makes sense.

I will be in touch,
Bill Scherer

Hi Norman,
Well, after talking to a few folks and reading some books, I can'tseem to find a real good reason why pelts are degreased. I thinkit has to be removed in order for the brains to penetrate theskin. I also found out that some folks use dishwashing soap toremove the grease. The greasiest fur pelts I have done were racoon,but even the weasels and coyotes had some grease on them.

Good luck,
Bill Scherer

"The Skinners" wrote:

Hey, talk about timing, I was just about to email you. I've beentalking to a fella at the hide out who rarely brains his coonhides. He says they're so greasy, he simply works them soft andlets the natural grease lubricate the hide. I don't think he reallygets them all that soft, but he says it's good enough for hatsand such. He said he thought degreasing was a waste of time. So,who really knows. I think if it helps in the fleshing it wouldbe worth it.

I was also wondering how you attached your smoking skirt to thebottom of the pelt. Some people have started glueing them on.And do you cut it to the shape of the hide to get a better fit?And also how do you smoke the tail? I've just been sticking astove pipe in the end of it.

Thanks,
Norm

P.S. I don't think that pattern from Braintan.com is what you'relooking for. The pattern doesn't have a cape on the back or aface on it.

Hi Norman,
Got the hat pattern from Braintan.com last night. Its a Fess ParkerDaniel Boone type thing. Gives the instruction on how to add theface, paws, and tail as options. Not quite what I was lookingfor, but its all good information.

I have wondered if a hide could be tannedwith its own fat. See if you can get your friend to document thissometime. Maybe get it on the web.

I use a combination of sewing and staplingon the skirt. Don't cut the pelt to get a better fit, just followalong the pelt bottom as best I can. Make the adjustments to thecloth, not the pelt. The tail is fitted down the split in theskirt (where the zipper used to be). Most people don't bothersmoking the tail, and some will smoke the tail separately. I haveseen the tail smoked by holding it over a hole in a deerskin thatwas being smoked.

Bill Scherer

Hello Amy;
If my guess is correct, I believe the author of the "Clanof the Cave Bear" series was referring to a plant with thecommon name of amaranth (also known as pigweed or redroot). Thescientific name is Amaranthus retroflexus.
Amaranth is a coarse erect annual, reaching 1 to 3 feet tall.Lower stems are often red or red-striped, with color continuingdown the taproot. The oval-shape leaves are alternately arrangedon the stems. Numerous small black, shiny seeds develop afterthe flowers mature.
Edibility: The leaves and tender stems can be eaten raw or lightlycooked. They are gathered in the spring. The seed can also beused for food. The seeds can be ground and used as flour (or evenused whole). The seed consist of 15% protein as well as a hostof vitamins and minerals. Seeds are gathered in late summer orautumn.
Medicinally: The leaves of this plant are a recognized astringent.
Amaranth is commonly found in cultivated lands, gardens, wasteareas and disturbed soils.

Check out the following websites formore information on Amanrantus retroflexus:

http://www.ppws.vt.edu/~sforza/weeds/amare.html

http://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/forb/amaret/

Sincerely,
Dino Labiste

(Question pertaining to the article, "Primitive QuailCall")

What type of wood is used?

I used willow but any type will work.

How do you shape it?

With a knife. Although you could use a stonetool.

What is the reed made of?

A rubber band but grass will work.

Bob Gillis

Hello Mark;
Thank you for visiting our website.

As far as how hide glue or any organicglue was discovered, archeologists can only speculate as to howit was discovered. It might have been through accident that gluewas created. Maybe after boiling a deer leg, along with the hoofs,in a hole in the ground lined with a deer hide, a sticky residuewas left in the container. The glue-like liquid then solidifiedinto a hard substance. Through trial and error, boiling hoofs,sinew and rawhide created hide glue.

The ancient Egyptians were known to utilizehide glue for adhering their furniture.

How did they create hide glue? Here isone idea. First a container for boiling the hoofs, sinew and rawhidewas needed. A hole in the ground, lined with an animal hide couldhave been utilized. The water in the animal hide could be boiledby continuously adding and replacing hot rocks until the waterbegan to boil. This process would have to keep the water continuouslyboiling until the glue-like substance, called collagen, was extractedout of the hoofs, sinew and rawhide. Collagen is a protein constituentof all animal hides. More water had to be added as it turned tosteam. Normally, using conventional pots and a stove, it wouldtake a total of 12 hours to boil the animal parts. After the boilingprocess had extracted out the collagen, the sticky liquid waspoured into a strainer (either a woven mat or wooden strainerperferated with holes) and any remaining water was squeezed outof the sticky solution. The glue was then allowed to gel in thesun on a flat, wooden tray or a slight depression in a log. Afterthe glue had gelled and then solidified, it was broken into bitsand stored in a leather bag for future use. When needed, the gluecrystals were dissolved in water and then applied. The containerwith the water and liquefied glue crytals could also be heatedby placing the container on hot ashes to warm up the glue. Ifallowed to sit for a long time, the water would evaporate andthe glue would again solidify. Warming it up keeps the glue inits liquid state.

Another container that could have beenutilized for boiling the hoofs, sinew and rawhide was a soapstonebowl. Soapstone makes an ideal primitive boiling pot because itabsorbs heat very fast and is easily carved into a bowl.

The California Native Americans usedfish glue and a combination of fish glue and plant pitch for theiradhesives. The fish skin most used was from sturgeon or salmon.One of the plant pitches utilized was from the various speciesof pine. Also asphaltum from the earth was used for adhesives.It was heated and used to haft obsidian and chert arrow pointsand knives.

I hope this information helps you answeryour question.

Sincerely,
Dino Labiste

Ernest, sounds like you have an interestingfamily history. Tules (also called Tulares) are a bullrush - Scirpusacutus or californicus. They are tall slender reeds up to 12 oreven 15 feet tall, which grow in fresh water. Tules are stillfound around California, especially in flood control ditchs, andaround ponds in golf courses. You might want to check in withlocal park rangers - Santa Monica Mountains maybe to locate some.They were a common material used by the Indians for house roofs,sleeping mats and boats (balsas). (I'm going to be cutting sometomorrow morning). The reference to a dead mangle, I believe,refers to an uprooted tree rather than to a particular species- a log jam or snag. If it was big enough to act as a marker itmight have been cottonwood, alder, sycamore or oak. This wouldnot be a permanent feature, although they often last for quitea while in the outside bend of a river. You might want to lookthe word up in a big, old dictionary to be sure.

Good luck,
Norm

Hello Antje;
Thank you for visiting my webpage. If I ever start tanning rabbitpelts, it would be angora rabbits. I have a few thoughts thatyou might be able to use. With the lack of available brains (aproblem for many of us), there are a few substitutes. I have neverused any of these substitute methods, but I know several peoplewho have. The easiest one is slightly beaten eggs. An added benefitis they smell less than brains, and there is less chance of infection.Another "no brainer" is soy lecithin, available in healthfood stores. To quote my friend Markus, "I buy the lecithinin granule form at the health food store. Boil it up in hot wateruntil all granules are dissolved. Then I throw it in the blenderand make a very runny solution." Ken Wee in the SPT Bulletinsays to dissolve 1/4 Cup lecithin, 1/2 cup shortening, and 16cups of hot water. Let the solution cool off so that you can holdyour hand in it without burning before applying to the pelt. Ifthe pelt is fresh off the rabbit, the flint scraper should workfine. I have used obsidian scrapers, but mostly use a steel plannerblade.
If the hide is dry, I use pumice to remove the membrane. Justbe gentle on thin hides like rabbits and canine.

Your smoking skirt doesn't have to be wet, only damp enough tokeep the hot spots from burning. Don't want to steam your hide.I would not use the skirt over the bamboo, since the bamboo wouldbe a real fire hazard. Try using the bamboo on the outside, sortof an exo-skeleton. All you need is a few twigs going across theinside of the skirt/pelt to channel the smoke into the pelt.

I visited Kent several years ago, and remember it a a beautifulplace. Lots of chalk laying in the fields. We met a couple whowere doing falconry at Leeds castle.

Let me know who it goes. One of these days I am going to try rabbitpelts too. For the moment I have deer and Beaver to work on.

Best wishes,
Bill Scherer

Hello Antje,
Last night I took out my copy of "Buckskin: The Ancient Artof Braintanning" by Tamara Wilder and Steven Edholm. Theywere my first teachers of braintanning leather, so I refer tothem a lot. The section on alternatives say to use the egg yokes,not the egg whites. I don't think water is added, but since Ihave never tried this method I can't speak from experience. Ihave read of an instance where sulfuric acid was used, but thatis a very toxic substance. I imagine the result would be a toxicpelt as well. Stick with the natural tanning agents. I have alsoheard of mayonnaise, soap, oils, tree bark, acorn paste beingused. Check out braintan.com, they have information on all thiskind of stuff.

On the question of how long to leave a fur pelt brained (or egged)the answer is: "that depends". The thickness of theskin and outside temperature are two big factors. After I applya brain paste to the flesh side of a fur bearing pelt, it is stuckinside a plastic bag, and put in a shady spot. After an hour ortwo I will smell check it. If it is getting too smelly, betterpull it out and start the softening. For a guess on rabbit peltson a warm day, probably two hours, but check every half hour.I know the thicker pelts (raccoon) can be brained overnight. Hopethis helps. Give me a shout when you can.

Always my best,
Bill

I have been getting helpful suggestions. Many thanks to thosewho took the trouble to write me.

All this interest in subjects like "thigh or calf spinning"on the part of what seems to be a considerable group, I will conveyto a Maya specialist in this area, JosÈ Balvino Camposeco,who is an anthropologist at the Subcentro de Artes y ArtesanÌasPopulares in Guatemala City. He has done a little book ( El MagueyY Sus Usos En Guatemala) (It may be available in English, too.)on cordage in Guatemala obtainable through the Yax Te' FoundationPress. in Palos Verdes, CA. email: pelnan@yaxte.org

It is hard for me to express how thrilling it was when I livedin a Maya town in Guatemala, in the 70s, to watch the boys whodid this as "artes manuales" in school. During recenttrips to Guatemala, I have been told that spinning maguey andmaking the "knotless" netting (simple looping) bagsis no longer done in public schools there. It may be done nowin some of the Maya bilingual schools.

Marilyn Anderson

Hello Neta;

> 1. How thick does the side of thetree trunk have to be to stay stable and not crack in the future?

If your tree trunk has been seasonedproperly, it should not crack. I have read of wood carvers usinggreen wood and roughly shaping the object to cut down on the dryingtime. After the wood was roughed out, it was placed in a sealedplastic bag for a week or more to stabilize the wood, then itwas taken out, worked on, and air dried in a shaded area. Of course,these carvers have been working on wood for many years and theywere sensitive to all the tricks and short-cuts for curing wood.Another fast method for curing wood was to rough out the formand then grease the wood. It was air dried in the shade. Thistechnique was used by bow makers for their bow and arrows. Butletting it dry naturally for a few months (even to a year) isone of the better ways to insure the wood will not crack in thefuture. While drying, sealing the ends of the logs with Elmer'sCarpenter's Wood Glue will also help to keep the ends from cracking.You can always give the wood a final lacquer or shellack finishto protect the wood (don't do this if your wood is still green.Let it dry completely before brushing on a finish).
How thick should the sides be? If the wood was properly cured,you can make the sides from 1" to a little less than 1/2"thick.

> 2. Do you have any recommendationsas to where to purchase some full pieces of rawhide (elk or buffalo)?

Access our website (www.primitiveways.com)and find the category called "Resources". Then findthe article entitled "Stores That Offer Raw Materials forPrimitive Projects". Open the article and scroll down toMichael Foltmer. He sells deer, elk or buffalo rawhide. He isa reliable source and I would recommend him. He may be at an eventin Arizona called Winter Count this week, so he may not be athis number. Call him to find out if he's around or try again nextweek. If you do contact him, mention you got his number from primitiveways.comand me. Primitiveways.com or I don't get any gratuities from himfor mentioning his business to others, but it would be nice toknow that we are referring him because of his excellent customerservice and products.

Good luck on your drum project,
Dino Labiste

Greetings from Norm Kidder, Primitiveways:
You ask about food foraging classes around the country. I do abouton or two a year myself - once in March, a one day learn 'em,pick 'em eat 'em sort of thing. and then we do a bit of foragingas part of our Rattlesnake Rendezvous on Memorial Day weekendalong with a lot of other skills.

Good places to check in if you haven'talready are John Kallas - Wild Food Adventures (Portland) wildfood@teleport.com,and Christopher Nyerges (Northern California) sos@self-reliance.net.Scooter Cheatam (Austin, TX) uwp@jumpnet.com , is putting togetheran encyclopedia of useable plants for Texas, and does Weed Feeds.David Holliday who works for BOSS (Boulder Outdoor Survival School)is an expert on the desert plant foods. (contact David Wescottat dwescot@aol.com) These guys are the best I know of, and themost likely to know others.

Happy hunting,
Norm

Hello John;

Access the homepage on our website: www.primitiveways.com

Look for the category called "Resources"on the left hand side of the homepage. In that category you willfind the section entitled, Stores that Offer Raw Materials forPrimitive Projects. Access that section and scroll down untilyou find Moscow Hides and Fur. Despite the name Moscow, this companyis located in the United States. Check out their website (theURL address is in the information pertaining to Moscow Hides andFur). They sell antler pieces that are reasonably priced.

Good luck on your project,
Dino Labiste

Mr. Baugh;
I have enjoyed your articles, and learned form them, on your websiteand in the "Primitive Technology". I have a questionthat I am trying to mentally bridge the gap with, perhaps youknow the answer or have some ideas. I would apprecitate it.

Aboriginals, early man, used hide glue . . . I've tried makingthis and knows it requires a long process of boiling, adding liquid,more boiling . . . till you end up with the goo. How do you thinkthis may have been discovered? What primitive containers/methodswould they have used? I have a project that I am working on demonstratingthese things and am stuck on this . . . any ideas?

Thank you,
Respectfully,
Mark Peatrowsky

Hello Mike,
When was the last time you made soup from leftover animal parts?My guess is that soup came before glue. Maybe someone was starvingand decided to boil up some dicarded feet, bones, hide, ect. toextract some nourishment from them. Maybe stone boiling or ina bark container held over a fire. They stuck a stick into themess and found out that boiled meat stock gels when it cools offjust like Jello. Pretty good glue can be made from un-flavoredKnox's gelatin.

Hope this gives you some ideas.

Dick

Hello GENTS!

I found www.primitiveways.com/and was happy to see that I am not the only guy in the world whois looking at his world and values a bit on the primitive side.My friends all think Im nuts lately, oh well, cant listen to themforever I guess.........

I am far away from your gatherings, (Mississippi) and wouldcertainly love to see some hands on stuff.

But I have learned much on my own, just going slow and thinkingabout your surroundings, you can solve almost anything. (I designand maintain wildlife habitat specializing in watersheds. I contractto various govt and private habitat orgs).

I have decided to prepair for a 2002 winter pilgramage intothe paleo world. Winter here isnt TOO harsh. I may decide to goelsewhere depending on habitat conditions. I want to do this formany reasons, one is that I must do this to feel and understandwho I am and how I fit into things as I should. There are lessonshere that can apply to a regular life, a whole system of valuesseems to be sitting here waiting to be explored and I want verymuch to feel this out and to see who the man is under the modernskin.

I have been far and wide in thesoutheast all my life as pro salt fisherman, pro trapper, prohunter, I have done them all for a living and am only now beginningto realize many things about myself.

I can get all the pelts I need for clothes and bedding andother items and need to learn to tan them naturally. I also needto learn how to fire clay and how to find it in my region. I doknow of one spot where indians gathered it, but I dont know howto use it. I have also purchased quite a bit of rock, good rockfor points and knives and need to be instructed how to do thesethings.

Thats about all I need isnt it? :-)

Well some knowledge of local edibles would be real nice aswell. Maybe something about making fire would be real good too.

I have to know this man ---- can you help me?

"Benny Marascalco" <yobenny@hotmail.com>

Hello Benny,

You need to join the Society of PrimitiveTechnology (SPT). They send out a bulletin twice a year with tonsof information. Steve Watts in Georgia is the presicent. The bulletinhas lots and lots of names and addresses of kindred souls, organizedby region. That would be the best way to connect with the peoplewho could teach all thos things. I am sure that your hunting andfishing skills would be quite valuable to some of these peoplewho know flint knapping, hide tanning, and other paleo skills.

SPT: call 208 359-2400. Well worth theeffort and $.

Dick

Benny, greetings from the world of craziesin California. Sounds like the lust for real life has gotten you.Many of us dream about going abo/paleo but few of us do it. Ifyou haven't already, check out some other websites - abotech.com,primitive.org, hollowtop.com, braintan.com, atlatl.com. thesewill lead you to lots of others. There are a number of gatheringsin the Carolina/Georgia area. A good person to contact is Scott(Abo-Boy-Wonder) Jones in Georgia. He is a flintknapper, soapstone,gourd, river cane guru of sorts, and a fellow board member ofthe Society of Primitive Technology. E-mail him at scottj@arches.uga.edu(phone - 706-743-5144).

Good luck,
Norm

Hello Ursa;

The pine logs would work fine.
When lacing your rawhide, leave enough slack as you go aroundyour drumhead so that the hide is evenly centered on the openingof the log. Before the rawhide dries, begin tightening the lacingas you progress around the log. Don't wait for the rawhide todry to continue the lacing. You need to complete your lacing beforethe drumhead dries. As you're tightening the lacing, you're stretchingthe wet rawhide taunt against the log. The purpose is to stretchout the hide as tight as possible. This will influence the soundof your drum. You'll never be able to stretch out the hide ifyour rawhide has completely dried first.

An added note: I mentioned to put a holein the side of the log to enhance the sound of the drum in mywebsite article. This is not really necessary if the drum soundsgood to begin with. I've recently found that a two headed drumwithout a hole in the side of the log sounds just a good as onewith a small hole in the side. Let your ears be the judge to determinewhether to make a hole in the side of the drum.

Tip on lacing: Take a look at the coconutdrum on the Homepage of PrimitiveWays.

Scroll down to the photo of the coconutdrum. Instead of lacing your cordage through the rawhide holesin my two headed drum article, try securing the cordage on thedrumhead similar to the photo of the coconut drum. Take a singlecordage and weave it in and out through the holes in your rawhide.Secure the cordage with 2 overhand knots. Be sure that the knotsend on the underside of the hide. Now, lace your lacing cordagethrough the cordage on the drumhead in the zig-zag pattern onthe two headed drum article. The cordage that you initially wovethrough the drumhead and secured with 2 overhand knots will keepthe holes in the wet rawhide from tearing. All the load will betaken up by the cordage on the drumhead and not on the rawhideholes.

Good luck on your project.

Sincerely,
Dino Labiste

I have used garlic (chew a clove) andalso mugwort (Artemesia sp.), a relative of sagebrush (rub iton). Mosquitos don't seem to fancy me anyway.

Dick

Hello Eric;
By "effective insect repellants", I'm assuming you'rereferring to natural plants. I can think of 4 plants off the topof my head:

1) California Bay Laurel - The driedleaves can be scattered in shelters to repel fleas, lice and otherinsects.
2) Eucalyptus - The leaves can be scattered in shelters to repelinsects.
3) Yarrow - The fresh leaves may be rubbed onto the skin as atemporary but effective insect repellent.
4) Mugwort - Mugwort, as well as California Bay Laurel, leaveswere placed in acorn granaries by the California Native Americansto deter insects.

Sincerely,
Dino

Bill;
Are the hides that you get, salted at all when you get them ordo you salt them? I hear of a lot of people soaking them in salt.Is it neccesary when using the brain tanning method? If you haveanswers, that would be helpful.

Thanks,
Jason Percell

Hello Jason;
Salt is not neccesary at all with brain tanning. If the hide hasbeen salted, the salt should be flushed out before scraping andbraining. The salt is added to the hide as a way to preserve ituntil the tanning process begins. There are other ways to preservehides, freezing them for example or drying them. Fresh frozenworks the best for me, but I use the drying method more becauseof limited freezer space. When using the drying method, I makesure to scape all the meat and fat off the hide first (fleshing),then let it dry. I think that during aboriginal times, salt wasa precious commodity, and not used to preserve hides very much.Probably the hides were tanned as soon as the animal was butchered,or at least fleshed and dried.

Bill Scherer

(Question pertaining to willow bark fibers)Brant, sorry to be so long in answering,but life is full. As to getting the fibers out of willow bark- usually I use willow as is, sometimes separating the outer barkand using the inner only. A quick way to get fiber is to stripoff some bark, then work off fibers from the inside bark alongone edge. I try to get them stripped off as long as possible,which takes some practice. I continue working off fibers whilepeeling back the outer bark. Another method is to dry the barkand resoak it, then de-laminate it into ribbons by working itloose (bending it back and forth). These thin strips can be furtherseparated until fine enough to twist into a stiff cord. This timeof year, it may be hard to get the bark to strip easily, lookfor trees growing in the water, as they will be wetter, and easierto strip). Keep practicing,

Norm

I just wrote to you and then discovered the primitive skillsweb site. I am very excited.

More questions:
Do you hold workshops for teachers? Day trip activities for kids?(Or overnight - we are great campers) How are they structuredand what do they cost. (We are great campers and fundraisers,but we are not wealthy)

We also have thought about planting gourds this spring to usenext year. I have not before taught 4th grade and most of theteachers in my school are pretty pencil and paper, so I'm a littleignorant in this stuff. It seems that guords were used by Ohlonesin several ways. Is that true - what ways? If that is so, I thinkwe're going to try planting them before school is out and seeif we can have some to dry for our Ohlone study.

And don't forget about the tule grass.

I am very interested in
*teacher workshops
*class field trips
*haveing a visitor come to the class
*materials, info about hands on things we can do when we studyOhlone ways.
*stories from the Ohlones (I am also a storyteller)

If you can help me in any way, please respond. Thank you.

Bonnie Malouf

Greetings from Norm Kidder. You've gotquite a few questions, but all of them answerable. First you needto know about the Coyote Hills Visitor Center in Fremont. Theyhave exhibits on the Ohlone Indians, including a boat made fromTule reeds. They also have a shellmound (ancient village site)within the park and do weekend programs to visit it as well asweekday school field trips. Because you are from San Mateo County,there is a charge of $40/hour/naturalist for your class. CallWanda Spitler, the secretary on Mondays, Tuesdays or Wednesdaymornings and ask her for information and an application form.Applications for the fall are due by the first Monday in August.In October they host the Gathering of Ohlonean People for a oneday event with songs, dances, stories and demonstrations, andthey have occasional other events. My wife works there (as didI for 24 years). We are also offering a teacher training thissummer on the Ohlones, with special emphasis on hands on activities.It is three days long and is listed under the Educators Academy.You can sign up for it through our central registration officeat 510-636-1684. It's less than $100 I believe (I'm at home anddon't have the flyer with me). The date is near the end of July- check the East Bay Parks website - ebparks.org - for specificdetails.

Tules do grow around the Bay Area, but mostly in places whereyou need permission to cut, such as drainage ditches and golfcourses. There are tules growing at Coyote Hills if you want tosee what they look like. You can tell them from the more commoncattails which have flat leaves and a cigar shaped seed head becausethey have only a round flower stalk, no green leaves, and a tassellike seed head. If you want to see what a thatched tule houselooks like, there is an exhibit at the county museum in RedwoodCity (in the old courrthouse). I put the thatching on over a framethat was already there. There is also a tule house at Coyote Hillsat the Shellmound, and there are models in the visitor center.I also have a tule house at Sunol Regional Wilderness where Iwork, but that is further to travel.

Stories from the Ohlone are scarce, but what exists have beentranslated and illustrated by an Ohlone woman named Linda Yamaneor told by another Ohlone - Alex Ramirez. They are for sale atthe Coyote Hills Visitor Center store.

As to in class visits, there are some Ohlone people who sometimesdo that sort of thing, call Bev Ortiz at Coyote Hills - 510-795-9385- to find out if any of her Interns (Ohlone people) are available.

Some phone numbers: East Bay Parks Reservations- 510-636-1684
Coyote Hills Regional Park - 510-795-9385
Sunol Regional Wilderness (Norm) 925-862-2600

E-mails: chvisit@ebparks.org (CoyoteHills)
svisit@ebparks.org (Sunol - Norm)

Websites: primitiveways.com
ebparks.org

Directions: Coyote Hills - take the DumbartonBridge to Fremont, take the first exit - Paseo Padre Parkway andturn left at the end of the ramp. follow to a left turn lane forPatterson Ranch Road (by a stand of Oak trees), turn left. PattersonRanch Rd. ends in the Park. The Visitors Center is about a milepast the entrance Kiosk.

Sunol/Ohlone Regional Wilderness - takeI 680 north from San Jose over the Sunol grade from Fremont. Takethe Hwy 84/Calaveras Rd. exit and turn right at the end of theramp. Follow Calaveras Rd. south for 4 miles to Geary Rd. Turnleft and follwo Geary 1.6 miles into the park. The visitor centerand my office are to the left after the Kiosk.

Good luck, hope to see you in a program,
Norm

Bonnie, I forgot to mention gourds inthe earlier e-mail. they weren't used by the Ohlone until afterthe Spanish arrived, the Ohlone's only crop grown from importedseed was tobacco. Gourds grow best in very hot climates, I'veonly gotten a few to be useable in my yard in Fremont. There isa good place to buy them in Folsom - Zittel's Gourd Farm. theyhave a Gourd Festival each year. For more info on that - e-mailChuck Kritzon at Petroglyphics.com (he's another of the PrimitiveWays.comguys).

Norm

Hello Norm,
My name is Brant Assmus. Recently I have been trying to make cordage.I have been trying to use the dry inner bark from birch trees.Whenever I try to seperate these fibers they seem to fall apart.Do you have any suggestions? Could you please tell me how to makecordage from willow bark. Thanks.

From: Brant

Brant, I've never heard of anyone usingbirch bark for cordage, but willow was (and is) used. First cutsome willow branches. Small green ones have very thin bark, buttry to scrape off the green outer bark. Thicker pieces can beused, but only the inner bark, the inner bark works best if driedfirst. After drying, resoak, then carefully separate into layers,then shred into fibers. These should then be twisted into cordageas with any other fiber. Willow inner bark cord is pretty stiffwhen dry, but loosens up when wet. For tips on making cordage,if you don't already know can be found on the primitiveways.comwebsite - look for the making cordage by hand article.

Good luck,
Norm

Hello Brad;
Since you already scrapped out the inside of the coconut, I'llassume that you've already cut a hole in the coconut. The coconuthas three, small eyes. These are the eyes in which the plant sproutwill germinate from. I hope that you've cut off that top portionof the coconut. That hole that you cut off will be the openingin which the drumhead membrane will be lashed to. Do not cut anotherhole on the bottom. Also your selection of your coconut shouldbe more round in shape as oppose to the elongated shapes. Thebottom of your coconut drum should have a slightly flat and roundedshape. If you have the elongated shape, it will not lay flat onthe knee, when you play the coconut drum.

A Hawaiian fish, called Kala, was alsoused for the drumhead. The fish has a leathery, dark green skin.Check out the Chinese fish markets in downtown Honolulu. The marketsare located on the corner of King Street and the Ala Wai canal.Ask the vendors if they have Kala. Or check out Tamashiro Marketin the Kalihi district (look in your phone book for the addressor call them up) to see if they have Kala. When you get the fish,lay the Kala flat on a cutting board and cut around the body ofthe fish. Near the gill area, gently peel off the skin. Try notto tear the skin. You want a whole Kala skin to come off for yourdrumhead. After peeling off the skin, lay it on the cutting boardwith the flesh side facing you. Take a butter knife, hold it ata 90 degree angle and scrape off any meat that is clinging tothe fish skin (remember: try not to tear the skin). Get off asmuch of the meat as possible or the dry meat will eventually rotthe skin. You only want to be left with just the Kala skin. Ifyou haven't finish sanding and polishing your coconut yet, placethe Kala skin in a ziplock bag and store it in the freezer. Whenyou finish your cleaning, sanding and polishing of your coconut,then defrost the Kala skin in cold (not warm) water. When it becomespliable, rinse it in soapy water, ring it out (remember: try notto tear the skin) and lash it to your coconut.

If you don't want to go through all of that process with the Kalaskin, you can go with a non-Hawaiian method of using cow rawhidefor the drumhead. Go to a store that sells pet food and buy oneof those rawhide chew bones. These are hard, rawhide "bones"that people get for their dogs to play and chew on. Soak the rawhidechew bones in cold water until it softens completely (it may takeawhile). When it's soft, unroll the rawhide bones and you shouldhave a piece of rawhide for your drumhead.

Sincerely,
Dino Labiste

Respectfully,
Mark Peatrowsky
Fremont, NE

Thank you for your very kind words.

Dick

Hi Dick,
I'm wondering if you have suggestions for the following more "quickneed situations" where you have no ready made tools. Howto make a watertight container for travel such as something similarto a canteen.

Mors Kochansky of Canada suggests carryinga large rubber balloon and a nylon bag. They take up very littlespace and weight and can carry a large volume of water. In the"bush" you might find bamboo which can be hollowed outas a water container. Other plants have hollow stems. AVOID WATERHEMLOCK!!! Your stomach can hold a lot. Drink until you are onthe verge of puking, wait a while and drink some more until youhave to urinate. Meanwhile, your urine should be perfectly clear.Some people are skilled at making watertight containers out ofbirch bark. You have to be in paper birch country for that.

and also some type of container for boiling water in (presumablywith
rocks).

I have heard of Native Americans boilingthings in birch baskets held over a fire.

Also, any suggestions for how to tell the type of that won'texplode?

The magic words are "vesicular basalt".This is an igneus rock with lots of holes in it. It's one thingfor people to suggest not to use stones from a stream but, howto tell what you can actually use is another. Where we live, theSan Francisco Peninsula, the archaeologists look for "firecracked rock" as an indicator of old habitation sites. Tome "fire cracked" implys that the rocks were not allideal candidates for stone boiling. Experiment!

Thanks and cheers,
Eric Waymann

Hello Joe;

> how do you clean out the gourd from such a small holewhen constructing a canteen?

The traditional method I use for cleaningout the gourd from a small hole is an old Hawaiian technique:
1. After the hole is made, take a stick and swirl it around theinside of the gourd. This will loosen up any seeds and dried gourdmembrane. Turn the gourd upside down and shake out any loose seedsand membrane. Some of the paper-like membrane will get stuck nearthe hole. With a tweezer, pull out any obstruction at the entrance.Repeat with the stick and extract as much as you can out of thegourd.
2. When you can't get out anymore contents from the inside ofthe gourd, the next step is to use pebbles to loosen up any clingingseeds and membrane. Collect pebbles that will easily fit intothe hole. Your pebbles should also have facetted corners thatwill help to abrade the inside of the gourd. Don't use smoothstones. Drop your pebbles into the gourd and shake and swirl theinside of the gourd. NOTE: Do not roughly bang the pebbles insidethe gourd. Doing so will create micro fractures in the gourd.How hard should you shake it? It's a matter of feel. Experiencewill tell you how hard to shake it. It also depends on how thickyour gourd is.
Occasionally empty out the contents of everything inside the gourdand repeat the process until you start to get fine gourd dust.
3. After you are satisfied with your pebble progress, empty outeverything and fill the gourd completely with water. Let it sitfor 2 days, then empty out the gourd. Drop the pebbles back intothe gourd and fill it 1/4 with water. Swish and swirl the contents,empty out everything and repeat over and over until the wateris clear. NOTE: Be sure you have a good grip on the gourd whendoing this. The weight of the water and the swirling motion maymake it difficult to hold. If you drop it, the gourd will surelycrack. The rule of "no banging of the pebbles from side toside" still applies.
4. When you are satisfied with the results, empty out everythingand set the gourd outside in the sun to COMPLETELY dry.
5. To use the gourd as a water container, you have to leach outthe inside of the gourd (it has a very strong tannin taste). Todo this, it's just a matter of adding a solution of baking sodaand warm water to the gourd and letting it sit for a day. Emptyand repeat this process until the bitter taste is gone. The Hawaiiansused salt water from the ocean for the leaching process, thenfresh water.
6. When not using your water gourd, be sure to COMPLETELY dryit out before storing. If there is any moisture in the gourd whenyou store it, the inside will develop mold. It's also good tocoat the inside with safflower oil (you can use the brand calledSaffola - found at your local supermarkets). Or you can use oliveoil. Pour some oil into the gourd and swirl it around, then emptyout the oil. Turn the gourd upside down to completely drain outthe excess oil.

> What type of paint do you use on the gourds?

I don't use any paints on the gourd.The designs are burnt onto the outer surface using a wood burningtool (found at your local arts and crafts store or woodcraft store.Also check out The Caning Shop - www.caning.com). Since the gourdsare porous, commercial paints may leach into the gourd. If youare going to paint your gourd, try using black, fine powderedcharcoal from a campfire, mixed with pine pitch. It's more organicand less toxic. Let the paint mixture dry completely before usingthe gourd.

Sincerely,
Dino Labiste

(Question pertaining to the article, "Scout Pit")

In those pictures on this page it showed that you had the leaveswith the branches and I thought that it would be very uncomfortableto have those branches for bedding. Also did you not have a blanketor did the leaves act as insulation? How do you make a grass mat?Is it like a woven mat? Sorry for all the questions I asked.

Your fellow outdoors man,
Nick

Hi Nick
Always good to know someone is reading the primitiveways website.I'm always happy to answer any e-mails concerning primitive stuff.

The bedding is all leaves, with my GI issue rain poncho on topof the leaves. The only branches are on top of the poncho, tokeep the wind from blowing the poncho away. I have slept in leavesand hay, both are very comfortable. Did not use a blanket, althoughI did wear pants, shirt, sox and coat. A knit wool cap is a goodidea too. If you got it, use it.

The mats I used were commercially made, the kind people use atthe beach. These were not really necessary, my idea was to limitthe amount of itchy leaves that would get inside my clothing.I've tried with and without mats, seems to be about the same.The only mat I've made was from tules (bulrushes). I will tryto describe the tule mat weaving process, but it should reallybe a hands on demo. Lay down the tules in parallel like the rungson a ladder, but no space between the rungs. Take another tuleand wrap it around the tip of the bottom rung. Do the same inthe middle of the rung, and then on the other tip. Twist eachof the weavers, lay the next rung in, and repeat. Keep going untilyour mat is as long as it need to be. Kinda confusing, I willsee if I can locate and better
mat weaving instructions.

Getting in and out of the pit is not difficult, but it is notlike crawling out of a sleeping bag. I suggest to bed, and keepa canteen within arms reach.

Good luck and sleep well,
Bill Scherer

Dear Norm,
Picked up a reference to your work on the Wild Edibles listserv,and wondered if you would like to be included in the Directoryof Edible Wild Plant Educators. It is a national listing of peoplewho are able to identify positively, at a minimum , the commonbackyard weeds which are edible and medicinal, and who are willingto help others identify them. The goal is to have someone within50 miles of everyone in the US who they can turn to if they arehaving trouble figuring out what "weeds" they have intheir backyard. Currently we have over 440 people from 45 statesincluded in the listing.

If you would like to be in, and/or have associates who alsobelong in this list, please provide me with
Name
Address
phone number
e-mail
website
brief description of your background with edible wild plants andwhat you are currently doing with them, such as teaching courses,available for consulting, doing weed walks, etc.

Thanks
Peter A. Gail, Ph.D. Director, Goosefoot Acres Center for ResourcefulLiving,
P.O. Box 18016, Cleveland OH 44118 (216) 932-2145, fax: (216)932-2187,
e-mail: petergail@aol.com. Website: www.edibleweeds.com or
www.goosefootacres.com. Author, lecturer, photographer, publisher.Books and
articles on edible wild plants, the northern Ohio Amish and creativeliving.
Imprint: Goosefoot Acres Press. Classes on self-reliant skills.

Peter, greetings.
Thanks for the invitation. I just had an e-mail and in persontalk with someone you directed to me - Samantha Allyn.

For your directory:
Norm Kidder, Supervising Naturalist
Sunol Regional Wilderness
PO Box 82, Sunol, CA 94586
(925) 862-2600
svisit@ebparks.org or atlatl1@aol.com
see website - primitiveways.com

I teach a variety of skills under theheading of Old Ways Workshops for the East Bay Regional Park District.I do at least one edible and useful plant program each spring(current one on 3/24/01). I include ethnobotany on many otherprograms, including basketry, survival skills and on our weekendin the stone-age Rattlesnake Rendezvous on Memorial Day weekend.I teach primitive cooking as well. I an often available at work(park south of Pleasanton, CA) to help people with identificationand uses. I have a small library of books available. Check outthe primitiveways.com website for schedules of Old Ways Workshops.

Hope this is useful,
Norm

Hi Norm,
Do you have knowledge of a school similar to yours in the SW area?I currently live in Tx, but could also attend a school locatedwithin a reasonable driving distance (i.e., NM, AZ, CO). I havesearched the internet for such schools, but with no results. Ifyou do not have any info, perhaps you may be able to offer suggestionsfor finding a school (contacts, etc.). Thank You for your assistance.

Warm Regards,
Wolf

Wolf, Have you checked out Tom Elpel'swebsite which includes a listing of schools? He is at hollowtop.com.Cody Lundin teaches out of Prescott, Az, and there are othersin Arizona and Colorado. Check his list, which is state by state.If you want more info on a particular school, you can check withTom, or me.

Good luck,
Norm

Wolf, Norm again. There is also Joe Bigley's book - Aboman's guideto Primitive and wilderness Survival Schools (or something closeto that). Tom Elpel may sell it through his site if you can'tfind it otherwise.

Norm

Hi Norm,
Peter Gail from my edibles newsgroup recommended I contact you.My name is Samantha and I live in Danville. I am looking for someclasses or groups of people with whom to forage. I also wouldlike to learn more about what grows when - where - in this area.

Are you also a mycologist? I would like to learn about themushrooms here. Are there any morels?

Sincerely,
Samantha Matlock

Samantha, it was good to talk to youon Saturday. Again, the only edibles program I'm doing is on 3-24at Sunol. some of the other Society of Primitive Technology membersdo foraging outings on occasion, notatbly Bill Scherer, Dino Labisteand Dick Baugh, they are all listed in the Friends of PrimitiveTechnology schedule on the PrimitiveWays.com website. I'm notsure when they might be going informally, but you can e-mail themand ask. The Rattlesnake Rendezvous has an opportunity for foraging(May 25-27), and Dick Baugh's trip to Bridgeport also involvesforaging. The best book on local edibles is called The Flavorsof Home, put out by Heyday Books in Berkeley, it's available inmany bookstores. It's specifically on the SF Bay area. You mightalso try the Botanic Garden in Tilden Park. The head guy is SteveEdwards, who has some interest in Native American uses of plants,they might have something on their lecture schedule. Point ReyesNat'l Park sponsors programs on California Indian subjects includingfood preparation occasionally. The group that does them is calledMAPOM. If you call the Park, they can probably get you in touchwith the schedule. You're other option is to come by Sunol whenI'm there and drag me out of my office for help.

Good luck,
Norm

Josh's questions:
Careers in primitive technology: Contact Norm Kidder, supervisingnaturalist in the East Bay Regional Park District. He's on ourweb site.

Cord slippage on a bow drill: Do it theEgyptian way. Use an extra long cord. Either drill a hole throughthe spindle and thread the cord through the hole or else tie thecord to the middle of the spindle with a miller's knot. Then windthe cord up on the spindle. It CAN'T slip that way. Slippage isbad.

You should get smoke in a minute or less.I go real easy at first. I'm never in a hurry. After going easyfro a while and getting a wisp of smoke then go as fast as youcan. Where you live get a California incense cedar hearth boardand a spindle of something harder like willow or mule fat.

Regards,
Dick

Josh,
Careers in primitive technology are a bit rare. Most folk, likeDick, do it as a hobby or side business. A few of us (myself,Steve Watts - the president of the Society of Primitive Technology)work for government entities that pay us for teaching primitiveskills as part of our jobs. We also due a lot of beaurocraticstuff. Others are freelance skills teachers and craftsmen, suchas Jim Riggs, Ron Macy, Joe Dabill, etc. They make a slim livingwith no benefits or retirement, but have some freedom. Some ofus run schools of one sort or another that include primitive skills.Larry Dean Olson started Boulder Outdoor Survival School, whichincludes primitive stuff in a survival setting. Dave Wescott,who runs the Rabbitstick Rendezvous and publishes the Bulletinof primitive Technology, took over BOSS from Larry, and in turnsold it. Cody Lundin worked for BOSS, and now has his own school,the Aboriginal Living Skills School. Tom Elpel runs the HollowtopOutdoor Primitive School (which may take in interns) . There aremany others out there. Tom's website www.hollowtop.com has a listof schools all over the country. The one other school I've heardtakes interns is the Teaching Drum school run by Tamarack Song.My recommendation would be to check out Tom Elpel, and BOSS (ithink there is a link to BOSS at Hollowtops site). Boss does hirefolk who have been trained to do the skills. Take a few BOSS coursesif you can afford them, go the the Rabbtstick Rendezvous in Idahoin September (e-mail dwescot@aol.com). Take classes from anybodyelse you can find (check with Chuck Kritzon at petroglyphics.com).Join the Society of Primitive technology (a bargain at $25), andcome on our Rattlesnake Rendezvous on Memorial Day weekend ifyou can.

Keep in touch,
Norm

Elliot, greetings from cyberspace. Whatkinds of training are available to you depends on where you live.If you are near the San Francisco Bay area, then we offer someclasses that would be useful to you. Check our website: Primitiveways.com.To find other schools around the country, Tom Elpel has a websitethat lists most of the schools at hollowtop.com. Joe Bigley alsohas a book out called Aboman's Guide to Wilderness Schools (orsomething like that). Joe's school is listed with Tom's site,and he also runs a chat room called the `cave' on the abotech.comwebsite. Tom has taken on interns in the past and so do some others.

Good luck,
Norm

Hello, my name is Alan Skopinski. First I would like to saythanks for all the help you have given so many others, and manywonderful articles. I am currently studying ethnobotany and primitiveliving skills, more or less focusing on primitive living skills.To be honest, I was hoping that you take apprentices or interns....I have learned a great deal in the past few years taking on interns,notably with Tom Elpel, and quite hopefully with Tamarack Song.If this is a possibility I would love to recieve more information.If not, thanks again and again... keep up the good work.

All that will be,
Alan

Alan, thanks for the e-mail. I work fora local government agency rather that for myself as do Tom andTamarack. The only intern program we have is for college students,and I have to submit a description, and our Human Resources Dept.picks the person, so I don't know if I'll get one this year. Ido work with young folks on an occassional basis who take jobswith the East Bay Regional Park district (my boss) as part timestudent aides and summer recreation leaders. For any of these.you'll have to contact the HR people at ebparks.org or call 510-635-0138.

Good luck,
Norm

Bill;
I live in a area of Utah that allows me access to many fox andraccoon. My family has been into raising chickens for many yearsand that seems to be a great attraction for these pesky critters.For the past 10-12 years, we have used all different types oftrapping methods and have become skilled in the art of capturingcoons, foxes, and skunks. We have been simply donating the corpsesto mother nature. My question is, is there a market for theseskins? It seems so wasteful to just throw them away. I look forwardto your feed back.

Regards,
Chad Brady

Chad;
I grew up on a farm, so I am well aware of the farmers need forpedator control. There is indeed a commercial market for raw furs.However the condition of the furs is critical. Fur is only in"prime" condition for a few months, sometime weeks,of each year. Unless the animal is trapped during that time, andproperly skinned and cleaned, a comercial dealer will not wantit. I will contact my brother in Minnesota, he is a trapper andcan give us more information. There is a Utah Trappers Association,contact them for information.

There are other uses for animal carcassesthan just pelts. I have eaten raccoon, quite tasty. The teethcan be used for jewerly. My friend uses fox leg bones to makeflutes and whistles. Let's see what other uses we can come upwith for the critters. I will contact you as soon as I have additionalinformation

Bill Scherer

All that will be,
Alan

Hello Alan,
I am strictly an amateur at teaching young people. I do volunteerwork in the schools here on the San Francisco Peninsula. You shouldreally join the Society for Primitive Technology. That is thebest group for networking primitive skills. In the San FranciscoBay area we have FPT, the Friends of Primitive Technology, a prettyactive group.

The most successful didj's I have madehave been from small eucalyptus logs. After they have dried Iquarter them with a bandsaw, cut out the interior with a routerand glue the staves back together. I use a piece of innertuberubber to hold it tigether while the glue dries. Then seal theinside with low viscosity epoxy.

I'm off tomorrow morning to the WinterCount primitive skills rendezvous in Arizona.

Keep in touch,
Dick

Hello Jim;
Here are some references for knotless netting:

1) SPT Bulletin of Primitive Technology#17 - Spring 1999 - Fibers
"Looped String Bags" by Bonnie Montgomery, pages 19- 22

2) "Androgynous Objects, StringBags and Gender in central New Guinea" by Maureeen A. MacKenzie,
ISBN 90-5702-270-2

3) "Creative Ropecraft" byStuart Grainger, ISBN 1-57409-115-8

Hope this helps,
Dino Labiste

Hello,
I am a varsity scout leader for a group of 8 boys. I have beenlooking for a project that would both teach and inspire the boys....your4 hour kayak just may do the trick. There are just a few questionsI have regarding the supplies I will need.

I live in the Pacific Northest (Medford, Oregon) and wonderwhere I would find the willow needed to build the kayak. As youmight tell, I know nothing about plants and trees but am willingto learn!

See : http://www.gripclips.com/primitiveways/plants3.html/pages/Willow.htm

Secondly, is there a season to obtain this willow.

No.

and do yo need to soak,

No, but you should finish the boat beforethe willow dries out as it will get stiff and be hard to bend.

then dry before covering?

No, since it is the shape of the frame thatgives it strength.

I like the 4 hour kayak because it is inexpensive and fun.Should you have other unique items to build I would be very interested.

Take a look at our http://www.primitiveways.com/Site. Lots of fun to be made.

Bob Gillis

Let me know what you think.

Sincerely,
Rob

Bob,
Saw the piece on reed flutes at primitiveways.com. Was wonderinghow can you keep the holes you drill in the flute from splitting.

If the reed is seasoned there is no needto reinforce the holes. I used a knife to cut the holes. If youuse a drill bit make sure it is sharp and drill the holes slow.You can also burn the holes with a large nail that hold in a visegrip and heat red hot with fire or propane torch.

The picture seems to show some type of reinforcement added aroundthe circumference of each hole, what is this material?

You are seeing the edge of the holes (sincethe holes were knife cut).

Bob Gillis

Thanks in advance for your reply,
Lance Stewart

hi norm!
i met you a couple years ago when i visited coyote hills statepark when i was working as a naturalist (still am). you and yourwife were facilitating a program for 3rd graders--fire by frictionand a visit to the Midden. i'm looking for on-line and hard-copyinfo regarding obsidian knapping. i've made a few points withpieces i've found in the local creeks up here in Loma Mar (inlandfrom Pescadero, next to La Honda), but i end up "wasting"a lot more rock than i want to. i'm especially interested in learninghow to first strike the obsidian in order to split off a greatpiece to work with (rather than the hit-it-with-a-hammer-and-see-what-i-end-up-withmethod). so far i've only worked smaller pieces of obsidian withdeer antler point via the pressure-flaking method, but now i'vefound a few large pieces (maybe a third of a loaf of bread insize) and don't know where to start. any suggestions?

i also wonder about cordage-making techniques. i've been experimentingwith different materials: bracken and sword fern inner-stem fibersare wondrously elastic and relatively uniform in width; wild cucumberouter skin fibers are decent; and recently i made 32 feet of iriscordage. Here's my quandry--i took that 32 feet of cordage and,after folding that length in half, i proceeded to twist those"two" lengths into rope yet again. basically i z-pliedthe iris twice onto itself--does this make sense? i'll eventuallysend a photo. the problem--as i proceeded to do this, my secondround of ply-ing worked against the original ply, causing it tobegin to unwind. i worked hard to re-wind the original ply asi went along and everything was okay at the end, but too muchwork considering that there must be a better way! thank you!

storm

Storm, thanks for the note. My failingmemory tells me you are one of the staff from the school campalong with Osprey, the Husk, et al.? As to the knapping question,there are books and articles out there, but I'll refer you toDick Baugh for the best info on this subject. There is a groupthat meets Tuesday nights in the San Jose Area to knap - Dickcan connect you to them as well as suggest the best books, etc.

As to the cordage question - did youtwist and ply the same direction on the second round as on thefirst? To make it work right, when you double back the cordageyou reverse direction, so if you z twisted and s plied, you woulds twist and z ply on the second round, then if you do a thirdround you go back to the z twist, s ply and so on, reversing eachtime.

Hope this is what you need.

Good luck,
Norm

Bill;
I have just gotten my first gray fox and am trying to tan thehide myself. I read your article after I got it skinned out andfrozen in the freezer. I split the hide as I have done with deerand bear except for the tail and the neck up. Should I just goahead and split the rest? After reading the article I have a coupleof questions:
1. Do I mix anything with the brain and for how long does it cookwhen cooking it down?
2. Do I degreass before I flesh or after?

That should get me started for now. I will probably write withmore questions as I get farther into it. Thanks in advance foryour help.

Steven

Hello Steven;
I will do my best to answer you questions:
1. Just add a bit of water, maybe about 1 half cup of water percow brain. What you are looking for is a milkshake type of consistencyto the mashed up brains. So if you are using the fox brain, atablespoon of water should do. Let me know what you come up with.Extra runny won't hurt, you could cook the brain until it getsto a consistancy you like. Cooking the brain at a slow boil onlyhas to be for a few minutes, but more would not hurt. Cookingthe brain is not really neccessary to
braintan, but it is a good safety measure to prevent infection.You may wish to wear rubber gloves, at the very least make sureyou have no cuts or bruises on your hands.
2. Degrease the pelt after fleshing. Fleshing should get out 99.9%of the meat and fat. Degreasing is to remove the slimy greasethat remains on the pelt after it has been fleshed.

You may want to split the tail now too.To braintan any hide requires getting your fingers on all areasof it, and that includes the tail. Be very gentle while workingthe fox, they are thin skinned and can easily be ripped.

Good luck and keep in touch.
Bill Scherer